semi-O/T -- Old cars safer than new cars?

The highway fatality rates are much lower now than at any time in the past. there are a lot of reasons for that, especially the seat belts and airbags, but you are less likely to be killed now than you were in the fifties and sixties based on the number of passenger miles traveled.

http://www.saferoads.org/federal/2004/TrafficFatalities1899-2003.pdf

 

I have a sneaking suspicion that some of that has to deal with making the car more (in a contemporary way) stylish, smaller, fuel efficient, faster, powerful, trendy and so on.

I also think it has a lot to do with getting your business.
If they perform better than the other guys in a crash test, then they're more likely to do well in that model year.

But, they certainly aren't testing them against any kind of frankenstein we can create by taking the old car and retro-fitting it with specific upgrades that became available later.

I seriously am in the process of selling our contemporary car and replacing it with a 52 Dodge Meadowbrook. It's a good sized car (and this one is mint) that we can retro-fit with all those things...and we do have kids in car seats. Thing is, it has the original flat-head 6 in it, so we aren't going to be breaking the speed limit. And I do know it's usually the other guy and all...but we don't have the money to have a daily driver and a fun car like some of you on here.

Am I crazy, stupid, or a bad parent? Seriously, let me know.

 

http://good-times.webshots.com/album/559668469gHyieA

Here's pictures of the wreck I was in. My old dodge saved my life!! I was stopped at a red light with 20 cars in front of me we had just got off work and the whole dodge assembly plant was heading home when I see a car coming up fast behind me. The speed limit is 65mph posted so that gives you an idea of speed. I look in mirror and all I see is the top of her head as she has dropped her cell phone on floor. Well as you can see my frame took alot of impact and I was able to walk away. I doubt if I would have made it if I was driving a unibody car. Made sure I got the biggest hitch on my net dakota.

 

Exactly Chopper...that's what I've always assumed...here's another example:

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=254666&page=1

 

What I was trying to say was.

When people feel too confident and too safe with all their new Technology, they sail their Brand New "Unsinkable" Ship into a Iceberg....

 

I have a friend who has been an ER Doc for 30 years. He told me that fatal injuries from car wrecks now are rare. Back in the '70s he said they used to flooded every Friday and Saturday night with car crash victims. Major head and chest injuries, near decapitations, lots of fatals. When it got into the '80s he said he could tell how old the car they were riding in was by the extent of their injuries. He said these days, he doesn't see anywhere near the fatal or severe injuries he used to see.

I think modern cars are a damn sight safer than old ones. But the modern drivers are a damn sight worse.

Kurt O.

 

There was a guy out here named Len Frank, excellent automotive writer and historian. He used to say that they should mount a 6" stainless steel spike in the center of the steering wheel, then everyone would really pay attention to how they drive.

Kurt O.

 

IMO, old cars are only safer than new cars because the driver/owner is less likely to be driving stupid. However, if you are in an old car on the recieving end, you are less likely to survive a major impact.

I had a mid size new SUV slam into the side of my 34 Sedan and damaged the running board and the rear fender. Although mine was damaged to the tune of $3000, the SUV was worse off. Mine was straightened, the SUV had to have all new parts. Fortunately, the impact was such that I didn't need side airbags, as the steel running boards protected my door.

 

It's funny how, no matter what sort of evidence is presented, some people still think they know more than everyone else in the world. Especially more than people who investigate this sort of thing professionally.

I'll reference my previous comment about simpleton's (mis)understanding of engineering.

 

Apparently that's what you do for a living and I should listen to you. And no matter how stupid I am...I don't take everything I hear for fact. I'm doing some research, citing other examples and asking questions...yep...I'm a simpleton. Thanks Bort!

 

Because cars are made of crappy, easily damaged materials now.
They have to compensate , with safety measures, for the idiot texting on their phone, putting on makeup, reading the paper etc......
It takes a lot of work and effort to drive some of our cars.
They don't stop on a dime so you have to look ahead and be prepared.
Most people are too DISTRACTED and LAZY nowadays to drive vehicles like ours.
The new disposable generation prefers disposable cars that they have no personal attachment to.
I would venture to say that a lot of older car drivers are way better drivers.
New cars have all the added safety to protect people who can drive from idiots and also to protect the idiots themselves unfortunately.
I bet if young drivers lost their license until 21 more would learn how to drive.
Make it a felony for talking or texting on a phone in traffic and most people will stop.
If you lost your license for 5 years for a DUI some people would stop.
Lose your license, for an avoidable accident you caused, for a year and you may think twice.
Its easy, if you can't drive you can't eat and if you can't eat you can't live. That would be a pretty good deterrent for most people.
Very few accidents are truely accidents and were not preventable.
Take away mechanical failure, weather related accidents and the like and there would be a drastic reduction in accidents overall.
I do think, in a lot of situations, that newer cars are safer but that's only necessary to protect you from people who suck!

 

Im still kinda of the school that nobody gets outa here alive,however about 10 years ago I had a tall T resto rod and during a NSRA saftey inspection they asked why I didnt have seat belts...I pulled out the seat bottom and there folded nicely and zip tied were my bolted in seat belts.When asked why I didnt use them I explained that this damn car was mostly oak with tin nailed to it...if something bad happened the last thing I wanted was to have my ass bolted to a set of frame rails.............

 

I'm still voting old cars with seatbelts over new cars. You really have to be more specific in your questioning when you compare the two. A model A versus a new Chevy truck? Or a 54 Cranbrook versus a Hyundai Excel?

 

New cars are safer. Next year's cars will be safer than last year's. Using an adjuster's opinion of whether you would have died or not is simply foolish. No one can tell for certain whether you would die or not.
Someone mentioned the famous Princess Diana crash. Hmm, seems to me that the one person wearing his seat belt LIVED. And that was a front seat passenger at that!!
Someone mentioned weaker new car metal, while someone else mentioned the FACT that the "jaws of life" and other, similar, tools could not cut through the metal on newer cars (I saw the article, too). What definition of "weaker" is bing used here??
For me, what turned my head for my daily was an article (backed up by a friend who works there now) about Mercedes particular type of crash testing. They use real crashes. Fatal ones, in their own cars. Abiding by the laws of the German government, which are different than those elsewhere, Mercedes is able to purchase the wrecks from the family (or insurance, point of origin moot) and then dissects them at their factory. This is NOT a pleasant job, but it IS the only way you can absolutely tell what happens in a fatal accident, because there was a genuine fatal injury sustained in the wreck being studied. Mercedes will also interview the family if there is reason to suspect a suicidal intent. Through such studies, Mercedes developed the various safety innovations present in their automobiles, including crush zones, pretensioning seat belts, specifically cushioned 'A' pillars, etc. They have also found that approximately 80% of single vehicle accidents are suicides. Volvo used to do the same, but after the Ford takeover, I can find no mention of this continued research.
All that said, I still do not drive based on fear. I drive a Citroën 2CV daily during the spring/summer/fall, and ride an '06 Triumph 955i Tiger whenever I do not take the Cit. But I have a Mercedes 300CD for family trips, both because I like it, and I feel it is the safest vehicle I can afford while still liking the thing.
And like most of you all, I truly believe that this current crop of drivers should have never been allowed outdoors without supervision.
Cosmo

 

i think in an old car the people receive alot of the energy in a crash.like the saying .its not the fall that kills, its the sudden stop!!!alot of people walk away from some pretty bad crashes now days .they might not have in an older car...now the old car could be repaired after the crssh where a new car would be toast..personally if im dead i dont care if my car can or can not be repaired

 

all the nancy's should give me their cool old unsafe cars... and make sure to brush your teeth twicw a day...

 

Rat Bastard touched on a scenario I actually survived. A Honda Civic pulled in front of my 57 Ford, which was going 45 MPH. He made a left hand turn from the right hand lane, so he was dumb, and mostly stopped when he turned. My 57 hit his drivers door, wasted him due to protrusion and impact, spun his car around and my rear bumper grabbed his sheetmetal and ripped his car all the way down the side. My 57 went straight through him, I slowed because he knocked me slightly into oncoming traffic. He and his girlfriend went straight to the hospital, a mess. My girlfriend and me bounced lightly off the wheel and dash, but didn't hurt ourselves or the interior(whew!) I drove the car for a month waiting for the insurance to come through. A pricey fix, but under those circumstances, a life saver. I've been in 2 other rear end crashes in old wagons with big frames and watched people bleed in front of their totaled new cars while all I felt was the equivalent of a bag of groceries falling over in the back and a bent bumper. I've always used big old cars for dailys, but my experience with them v.s. modern iron has been fortunate. The specifics for any accident are always different, I'm sure in some cases I'd do worse, but I haul my kids with confidence in a 63 Impala wagon. Seat belts and radial tires go a long way in my book.

 

Thanks guys...I didn't start the thread, but I feel a lot less stupid about it than some folks'd try to impose. Sure, there's a lot to be said about physics and specifics about a crash. But, I think I'll be alright with a big body car with belts, radials and some disc brakes eventually. Sure as hell feel safer in it than a little car. All the way home, I kept thinking about those two fellas earlier in the post getting rearended...either one, that car woulda come right the hell into my wife's minivan...right where the kids car seats are.

Oh and another thing about the statistics and such about fatalities and highway safety. I'm sure there's a lot to be said about the quality of roads, lighting, guardrails, lines on the road, reflectors, signage, etc. Then there's also the fact that people wear seatbelts more and there's state laws about it.

I'm sure a new car is safer on paper...

 

I SAID IT ONCE... ILL SAY IT AGAIN IN DIFFERENT WORDS...

WHO HERE REALLY GIVES A FUCK ?

IF YOU FEEL OLD CARS ARENT SAFE AND ARE A DANGER TO YOU & YOUR FAMILY...

SELL THE FUCKER AND BUY THE NEWEST SAFEST THING YOU CAN FIND !!!!

THIS THREAD IS WORTHLESS ON AN "OLD HOT ROD BOARD"

 

Apparently, answering an asked question makes me a "nancy" instead of an enthusiast. No, you can't have my old shit. I restore and hot rod old fucking cars. I've seen a bunch pics of crashes, newsreels, archives from the Ford Motor sled labs dating back to the 50s, and spent 5yrs in a crash and safety pre-production program. Present company excluded (most of em I'm sure), ppl today drive like complete fucking brainless cattle. If you drive in a normal fashion you get scowled at, the finger, and generally entertained by the fuck-head's road rage. Well I find it entertaining sometimes.

For a daily commuter car the cattle catagory needs what's built today. At least the ppl I care about are a bit safer for it. I can handle and drive most any car I can fit in. At Hershey this year I used a 26 Stutz roadster for transportation to and from the meet. Would I have wanted to get slammed in it? Fuck no. I think I'd have been safer in the dually, of course I wasn't driving the dually so I was perhaps more aware. What may not have been said is that driving an older car might make others more AWARE of YOU. That can go either way as some forms of cattle are so brain dead they fuckin drive right into you because they're lookin at the car and, as usual, not the road.

For my observations over the last 3 1/2 decades regarding the topic and question, and for my participation in a sincere HAMB discussion, I still can't get "nancy" out of it. But then again I didn't say "Hey, go fuck yourself" for your opinions also. If that too makes one a nancy then let me know and I'll be glad to adjust accordingly.

 

there is no comparison.

 

This is true and I image it's in part why we don't see more injuries and death in older cars today. Sorry, you can come up with personal stories but the new cars are far safer.

I'm guilty of the above. I don't really understand it either. LOL. I'll notice sometimes when I'm in the wifes car driving that I'm too close to the car in front of me. I'm not really concerned either.

I'm always checking distance when driving my 54. Always. I never find myself noting that I'm too close to the car in front of me.

Some people climb rock faces. Some jump out of airplanes. I figure my risks in the old car is minimal compared to some other interests. (besides, I don't like climbing or falling). I do think about it when the 6 year old is in the back seat. That's not a big worry as she has a ton of room back there. (there are belts and a child safety seat). The steering wheel and dash are far closer to those in the front.

I am conscience of the increased dangers while driving my old car. I'm really not in the new car. (that doesn't mean I drive carelessly in either, I'm just not constantly thinking about it).

I've never had an at fault accident.

 

I just sat through a safety meeting put on by liberty mutual the statistics they posted were in 72 half as many cars on the road as there are today yet there were more traffic fatalities than there are today I dont recall the exact numbers but it was like 115 million in 72 and 245 currently and 5000 people were killed in 72 and 4000 currently so I would say new cars are safer

I have to attend these meetings for work, always seems like a pain in the ass but i always learn something and i am a better driver for it

its little things, like when the light turns green hang back for 3 seconds at a busy intersection if you are the first to go, in case someone coming blows a red light this one tip saved a person from my company her life. the same day she attended the meeting

another one was leave enough room in front of you so you can see the bottom of the tires of the car in front of you. if that car stalls in a traffic jam you are locked in if you dont leave any room in front of you,one guy pointed out if you are in a rough neighborhood you can turn and burn if bullets start flyin

another good one was dont join the pack. if you have a group of cars in traffic its natural to want to catch up to them but think what happens at daytona nearly every year. I used to think go around them, but what usally causes the wreck the guy trying to pass. 3 seconds behind is the recommended following distance

a little trivia, a normal reaction time is 3/4 of a second that means it takes that much time for your eyes to see a problem and your brain to react. at 65 or 70 you cover allota asphalt in that time

sorry this one got long winded but hey maybe it will make you guys just a little bit better driver and we wont see any more rods get piled up or a few less obituaries on the board its been a crowded year on here so far.

use common sense and drive your hot rod or bike like there is a bullseye painted on every side of it!

 

Automobile safety equipment was the last thing going through this
guy's mind just before losing conciousness. Fortunately, the doctors
were able to remove most of it.

 

A full frame car against a unibody, the unibody loses.
You are more likely to survive in an accident between 2 unibody than 2 full frame car even (especially) if they are less damage to the full frame ones.
Rates of survival depend on what you hit or get hit by and how you hit it or get hit.
I've been in a head on in my 70 something crapunibodymobile against a new car, on my side I had a cracked skull from the steering, the engine was inside the car, the hood penetrated the car (busting the windshield), my left foot was stuck with the left wheel, doors jamed and the car on fire, I made it and don't know how I got out of the car (adrenaline works wonder). In the other car there was a pregnant woman, not a single scratch her car was toast too but less damaged thanks to crumple zones.
The worst car ever are the early unibodies, they have all the disadvantages of full frames and the disadvantages of unibodies.

 

Modern cars are much safer vehicles in terms of the HUGE increase in related technology, but as others have said, the tradeoff is the huge surfeit in driver intelligence! I lose track of how many stupid things I see other drivers doing on the road. New cars are so simple to operate (no clutch, power steering, ABS, etc.) that people spend all their time fiddling with phones, drinking coffee, putting on makeup, instead of DRIVING! ABS brakes are the worst. I'm constantly on the verge of soiling my shorts because some yahoo zooms up behind me at a light, suddenly stopping inches from my bumper. (You can't do that with drums and a dixie-cup-sized master cylinder!) The worst part is, even I do it when I'm driving a new car. My wife has a new Mercedes, which is probably one of the safest, most well-engineered cars available, and a pleasure to drive. (sorry, but it is true!) As soon as I get behind the wheel, I drive it like a jackass, too. When you are used to an old piece of crap car, a new performance car makes you feel like a friggin' Formula One driver!

When you drive an older car, you are required to pay more attention, due to the relative complexity of the vehicle, and lesser function of things like drum brakes. When you're driving a three-on-the-tree, it's a lot more difficult to sip your latte...

 

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3l4YBf2tjag heres a 9 yr old car hitting a new car in a crash test quite interesting results.