What trans would work with an AMC 258?

If it helps any, I helped a buddy swap a T-5 for a T-18 a few years ago in a Jeep. He had to get a different bellhousing for the T-18. The T-18 bell had the older Ford pattern that was used on all the toploader variations. Either way, the T-5 is an excellent choice or you could go with a toploader 4spd, 3spd, or the 3spd with overdrive. I have had all but the 4spd and they worked fine, plenty strong for a 6cyl. the overdrive was a RUG coded trans out of an 80's Ford truck. Be careful about the recommendations on 4x4 sites. The T-18 is perfect for a truck climbing rocks, but not great on the street and I would never put one into a car. Even though one was available with "normal" gear ratios in some Jeeps, it is super heavy and most have a 7 something to 1 first gear. You can't use that on the street in a car. Those transmissions are used in 1 ton trucks all the way up to dump trucks. It would be like driving a tractor around all the time. I have one in my Bronco and it drives like a tractor.
My vote for drivability is either a T-5 or T-4, or go with a toploader. The 3spd ones are a dime a dozen and pretty strong.

 

I don't think Ford EVER used the T-176 - that's why I was confused as to what you're looking for. AFAIK, the T-176 is a Jeep-only & 4WD only application (but I could be wrong on both counts). You can put the T-176 shifter onto a Ford Toploader - perhaps that's what you're referring to, but we're back to ****** mods, which you don't want to do. This does require dis***embly of the ****** as the case requires grinding for shift-fork clearancing. There was an article in Street Rodder in the past 2-3 years & David Kee is making the T-176 shift towers (not cheap).

Then you're likely stuck with mostly AMC ******s from p***enger car applications...

Interesting, I'm far from a Willys expert, but didn't believe they got a 6 as an option until the late '40s (in fact, a quick review of my motors manual shows '48 as first year for a six).

But if you want to stay Willys, why not put the 226 Super Hurricane engine in there? They're reliable, they make pretty good power (115 stock I believe), & they're Willys!

I think if you want a modern ******, that's probably your best option. From a price perspective, you can pick up a Mustang T5 <$300 and should be able to find an S10 core for <$100. Swapping the tailshaft & topcover over is pretty straight-forward.

 

Here's another vote for the T-5, I was going to go that route with my 258 but decided to go another way. pm me if you need any speed parts(head intake etc.) hell I've still got the jeep t-5 and a t-5 out of an S-10 in my garage.

Oh yeah, the guys were right about sticking to the 258, you swap the head to a later 4.0 and gain something like 40hp (not too shabby considering most 258's were rated at 175hp)

 

Am sure you are aware, pre 72 blocks have a different bolt pattern than post 72. I would look for a Spirit. This car falls into the 70's small car with manual transmission genre. Many of these came with both the T4 and T5's.

 

True - I forgot all about that - they were also used on 82-86 AMC Eagles - including behind 258. Crummy 4.03 ge****ts though.

 

If the Ford & AMC ******-to-bellhousing pattern is truly the same, another option may be a late-model ('05-07?) Mustang T5 from behind a V6. Very short, very forward shifter position, just have to use one of those funky u-joint flanges instead of a slip yoke...

Although I don't know much about adapting their shifters...pretty sure they use a remote shifter ***y.

 

Ok, tried to take a break from this last night, and what do I find, but an article on T5s in the april copy of street rodder. It basically showed how to swap the s-10 tail housing onto the world cl*** t5. Now, I'm trying to remember from all the stuff I read on the net, but I think I recall a mention that NWC and WC T5s do not share the same bolt pattern on the bell housing. If I'm recalling right, only the NWC would work for me, as that's the one that uses the ford bolt pattern that would match with the AMC pattern on the 258. I also noted what transmissions were being used in several of the other articles, and the S-10 T5 has been showing up behind everything from stock flatheads to blown flatheads to early hemis. So how poor really is the S-10, NWC version? I can't see a 258 putting out that much power, and like I said, I'm not going to beat on the thing.

A few of the other things that were mentioned:

The t-18 is out.

I was unaware that 72 was a 'change over' year for the 258. One of the things I have been asking the 'experts' is what years I would need to look for, and no one seemed to have the answer. So I'm looking post 72, or earlier? I do not think the spirit was available in 72 or before, so I'm ***uming I want a 72+ motor. This works out for the best, as I will have a far better chance of finding a mid to late 70s or even early 80s 258 in the JYs.

As for 2wd cherokees, while they may have made quite a bit of them, they didn't sell any around here. The 4.0 is not really an option, as I don't want to mess with the electronics.

Willys did indeed have a straight six in the 30s, and even a straight 8 from what I hear. The six was a 'sleeve valve' engine, and was much more reliable and powerful than most of the compe***ion. While model A four bangers were being pulled for better motorvation in following years, the willys six was usually still stout enough to hold it's own, even upwards of 60mph on the interstates. I'll have pictures and concrete measurements in a few days, but fitment should be ok, as these cars were roughly 15&#37; bigger all around than a model A ford.

And lastly, the T-150; what is this, the forgotten trans? I can't seem to find ANYTHING out there on it, and certainly not wha ford apps it may have come in. To be honest, I will be quite fine with a three speed. I've only owned one stick car in my life (not really by choice, just what was available), and it was an archaic three speed, and I was fine with that. It may even have BEEN a t-150, it was in a 75 CJ-5 that I owned...

 

No. Bolt pattern is dictated by application, not whether a trans is WC or NWC. All the AMC applications are NWC, so you don't have a choice if you stick with a stock AMC T5. What I do not know is which bolt pattern they have - Ford, GM, or their own. The Jeep ones appear to have the Ford pattern (but I've not measured it or compared it - no Ford T5s right now).

Yes, the T5 is under-rated. It is not a strong transmission like the Ford Toploaders or GM Muncies, but it is perfectly fine for your application. I abused a NWC T5 behind a 375HP stroker 351W for several years - lived with "crunched" synchros & just double-clutched it for years - never really broke anything.

I freely admit I know nothing about AMC engines, but it stands to reason that since the T5s were only offered in the early '80s, you'd want a post-72 engine - IF a T5 is your decision.

OK - could find no reference to them either online or in my manuals. I'm not doubting you as it was a relatively small marquee that probably coach-built a lot of stuff...

I will make another push for the 226 Super Hurricane if you want to keep Willys power. Great engine.

If you choose the T5, I would suggest looking at more than just original application. Like most manual transmissions, the T5 was offered in several ratios - there are at least 3 for the NWC version. Read the T5 Tech link in my sig to get an idea of the differences.

 

All valid points. I think the AMC was a ford pattern, why else would Hazel recommend the T-18, a ford ******? I don't think there is a simple plug and play answer to this question. I'm going to do a sweep of the yards and see what I find. Who knows, there might be a complete 232 and trans in some old AMC product that just got dragged in. I will also (fingers crossed) have access to the car this weekend, which I will measure about 17 ways from sunday to be absolutely sure the 258 will fit, although I don't think it will be a problem. This will also give me an idea of what shifter locations I can get away with. My head needs a couple days off from this anyway.

 

Case pattern may be the same, but something else to check is input shaft length. I'm pretty sure the T18 used different input shaft lengths between Ford & AMC. Novak has this info...

So I'm not sure it's simply "plug & play" with a Ford ****** - I think the only thing you can be certain of is the case will bolt to the bellhousing. The input shaft, however, may not be the correct length...

 

No, you're right. Novak recommends a special pilot bushing which they sell. I guess while the trans itself did not change much, the shaft did, and there are several lengths.

 

old thread but any 2wd auto transmissions that bolt to jeep 4.0 without a $400 adaptor?

 

Yes, hundreds of thousands of them. The Cherokee (not Grand Cherokee) used AW4 (Aisin-Warner) 4 speed automatics as did the Commanche Pickups, and many were produced in 2 wheel drive. I have driven many thousands of miles with these automatics, and like them just fine. Granted, far more were made in 4 wheel drive than 2 wheels drive, but they are out there in significant numbers. I have had a few of them. Southern areas tend to have a greater percentage of 2 wheel drive models in any make of pickups and SUVs then northern climes.

 

The Dakota Pickups used the AX15 as well and many are 2 wheel drive. These trannies come with the bell housing bolted to the trans case....so, if you find a Dakota trans, all you need is a relatively easy to find Jeep bell housing....a direct swap. The rear mount pad is slightly different as well, but that is a non-issue in a custom install. I tell you this from firsthand experience...I have both versions in my shop as I type this. In fact, should you need a Jeep housing.....I have it. The latter not the purpose of my post, but incidental to it.

 

In the 70's AMC used a 3 speed with electric overdrive in Pacers, Gremlins, and Hornets. I believe it was a Lay**** de Normanville overdrive. All were bolted to 258's, and had a synchronized first gear.

 

2wd Jeep Cherokee AX15: Central Auto Liquidators-ELITE USA-NJ(Franklin) 973-827-3696
$400. 56-miles from you. Ask for stock number: CA2443.

 

anyone have pics of AW4 2wd version?

 

The 2WD versions looks the same as the 4WD version except the rear of the case has a tapered tail housing instead of the "flange" as seen on 4WD style.

You could also use the Mopar 999 Torqueflite which is used in the Wrangler's with automatic. It only came in 4x4 in Wranglers, but I would expect any good ****** shop could combine that with the 2WD Torqueflite (904 I think it is) that it is based on and produce a 3 speed 2WD auto that is compatible with the 4.0 engine and fully automatic without a computer or controller.

 

no need for pictures found manual. thanks guys!

 

The AW4 is electronically shifted.