As some of you know I've been trying to dial in my 351 Cleveland. I have her running good but it looks like I'm missing about 100 hp. When I installed the cam I lined up the dots on the timing gears as usual. Well this is a performance cam and come to find out it has to be degreed. It has a 111* lobe seperation. When I installed it I had this in the back of my mind the whole time. But figuering there is a key slot for the gear, I didn't think it to be adjustable other than by a gear tooth either way, advancing or retarding. Is this right? All night I've been thinking this could be it. If this is true do I need to get one of those fancy cam cards they sell from Summit or how is it done?
whats up man, when are we gonna meet up and caravan the la mesa strip?? anyways, degreeing a cam is pretty simple. your cam should have came with a spec card. al the degreeing does it measure the lobe seperation. then you check to see if the specs match the card. i think. anyways good luck with it. friday night i am going to the car show at the malt shop next to the sprts arena. you should head down if you are free. diego
You can buy a "multi-index" crank gear...it will have a few keyway slots so that it can be installed "straight up", a few degrees advanced, or a few degrees retarded in most cases. Advancing or retarding your cam timing essentially moves the powerband up or down. Advancing a cam a couple degrees tends to make the engine pull better at lower revs, while retarding it makes a little more upper rpm power as a very general rule of thumb. Moving it too much in either direction can cause piston to valve interference in some engine combinations, though...normally where big cams and domed pistons are used...but it's still something to keep in mind. You'll need a degree wheel (available at any speed shop or through various camshaft makers) to find out exactly where you're at, cam timing wise...the multi-index gears allow you to advance or retard from the ***umed "straight up" position, but you need to find out where "stright up" really IS with your cam so you know whether you want to advance or retard it...or just leave it "as is". The gear may indicate "+" or "-" X number of degrees, but that amount is simply relative to the straight up position on that particular gear. Always best to measure and be sure that you are starting from zero degrees when making a change.
[ QUOTE ] As some of you know I've been trying to dial in my 351 Cleveland. I have her running good but it looks like I'm missing about 100 hp. [/ QUOTE ] I think I've got your extra 100 HP in my Chevy. Did the card/info that came with your cam tell you to do anything other than install it straight up?
Thanks Fat Hack, I had a feeling you'd be the one to answer. That does help quite a bit. I'll call the cam mfg'er and see what they have to say about it. My cam's not real big, but stout (solid lift in226*/ex235* duration @ .050). I'll let you guys know what they say. Diego, I'm might drive thru La Mesa today after work. I'm going to swing by The Lowering Block in El Cajon to see about my c-notch. Look for me if you're there early.
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] As some of you know I've been trying to dial in my 351 Cleveland. I have her running good but it looks like I'm missing about 100 hp. [/ QUOTE ] I think I've got your extra 100 HP in my Chevy. Did the card/info that came with your cam tell you to do anything other than install it straight up? [/ QUOTE ] you just wait mister, you'll see (my tail lights) the card said a bunch of things, but it did say Lobe seperation 111 degrees, is that what they're talking about?
http://www.fordmuscle.com/fundamentals/camdegreeing/index.shtml . http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB1&Number=408050&Forum=UBB1&Words=Finding%20TDC%20on%20a%20bolted%20up%20motor%3F%3F%3F%20&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=6months&Main=408050&Search=true#Post408050 . And make sure you use a solid lifter, or at least put the dial indicator on the solid edge of the lifter.
You dont have to buy a degree wheel. You can print one off the internet and glue or transfer it to a nice piece of metal. I used aluminum. Just do a google search.
With a solid cam, you can also make minor tweaks with different valve lash settings, within a given acceptable range. I tend to run solid cams a little on the loose side...towards the big end of the allowable clearance. If you advance your cam a few degrees (2-4 degrees) you'll probably feel a little stronger kick in the *** around town...if that's what you're looking for.
Thanks for the links. I read them along with some others, and now I have a much better under standing of what degreeing a cam is. Love that ford muscle site. Now finding the time to pull the front cover and do the test and adjust. And yes, that little stronger kick in the *** around town is exactly what I'm looking for.
[ QUOTE ] And yes, that little stronger kick in the *** around town is exactly what I'm looking for. [/ QUOTE ] Should have put a MOPAR in it then
We mess with cam timing a bunch with our cars. We have some guys who change cam timing instead of gears. I'm currently running a 104 deg. center line. Moving it to a 102 gives you more umpf out of the corner, but peters out at the end of the straight. The most critical thing about setting cam timing is having absolute top dead on the #1 cylinder. About and pretty close won't cut it. Don't trust timing marks, because we have found the pointers to be up to 6 deg. off one way or another. Use a dial indicator to find exact TDC then make your own pointer from there. Doing this will make setting ignition timing more exact too. We don't use a deg. wheel on our 4 cyl. engines, just dial indicators and mathmatical formulas. Just a few tips to help you out.
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] And yes, that little stronger kick in the *** around town is exactly what I'm looking for. [/ QUOTE ] Should have put a MOPAR in it then [/ QUOTE ] Another Ford basher? shame on you!
The article on the ford muscle site showed how to find that true TDC by cranking clockwise, then going back 1 turn counter clockwise and splitting the diff. even if you know about it, it's good to read.
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