The 48 Cadillac sedanet build at Crushproof...we wanted to keep it as much Cadillac as we could..I had an Eldorado 500 V/8 I had saved out of a car with only 52K onnit..problem was I had it sitting around for ten years and condensation did its work on the internals and it was determined it needed boring/complete overhaul..So, it was determined we would save a little money if we bought one already done..looked around and found one that the word was had been overhauled by M.T.S., Cadillac outfit with a good rep..tragic flaw is we are buying it from a friend of a friend instead of direct, really no recourse if something is wrong..Well, something is wrong, it keeps breaking lifters, with no corresponding damage anywhere else?..We're scratching our heads..a head was milled too much? bad casting in lifter galleys?..doing a little detective work on the history of the engine to see if said friend has build sheet,reciept, something to get some help with..Nothing on M.T.S. so far, they have been very helpful..I just should of bought directly from them then we would know more..or gone ahead and had the first engine overhauled..Thrashing for Roundup and it doesn't look too good..although Lux tells me he has broken at the strip, and 45 minutes of pit thrashing later was back up at the line...
Describe "breaking lifters" a little better. Same lifter? Different ones? Cam lobe... lifter bore... pushrod length... valve sticking in guide...
I'm getting closer to firing up a fresh 509" Caddy build. Stop scaring me. Might post this up for the online Caddy experts over at: http://www.cadillacpower.com/forum/index.php Definitely let us know what you find...
What do you mean breaking lifters? Lets see a pic. Not normal on a 500 Cad. We need more info. please.
It is breaking new hydraulic lifters, clean in half, horizontally, after just a few seconds of running..put in MTS high pressure oil pump and a fresh set of lifters, another few seconds of running and broke same two and two more??..with no other damage anywhere else??...gremlins...Oh, and on first firing it had a screeching noise which was spacer cup on end of camshaft was rubbing on back of timing cover, a little seating with a mallet fixed that...more gremlins...
Pics of the damaged goods? Wrong cam,cam not oriented correctly front to rear,Ie to far in,to far out and catching the edge of the lobes?
Dude you have a serious problem!!!!! Wakking cam with hammer to fix screaching just don't sound good. Post some pics of the lifters. If the cam depth front to back is wrong the lobes will bang the edges of the opposing lifters and break the **** out of things. If this is the case your cam is screwed. >>>>.
Are the lifter bores sleeved? A friend of mine had the same problem, and discovered that when they sleeved the lifter bores on his 460, they somehow offset them.
Wow. Sounds like either it's the wrong cam, or it's too far forward or back like others have stated. It takes a lot to break a lifter in half, I would imagine, and you will want to check the bore now, along with checking for shrapnel.
We did not wack the cam with a hammer. The fuel pump ecentric was rubbing the cover we have an electric fuel pump , so we did not need it. I took it off and put the cover back on. The lifters are shattered , not cracked in half. Two sets have done the same thing. I think someone put way too big of a cam in it. We just found a lifter bore that is cracked all the way through, time for a new block.
Had that happen to me years ago. Not a caddy engine though. It was a SB Ford and the cam thrust plate behind the cam gear was missing. Caused the cam to walk forward, and break lifters just like you are describing. Was pulling the cam to see WTF and saw the plate was missing. New cam, lifters and thrust plate and all was good again. -Dave
The on going story..the 472 Caddy is junk, with cracked lifter bore as mentioned (anybody interested in a nice set of 472 heads?)..getting a 30 over 500 direct from M.T.S. like I shoulda done in the first place...This has been tough guys, I paid $3500 for that 472 on the pretense that it was built by MTS..the fella I bought it from is a long time stand up member of our local hot rodding, drag racing community..Him telling me it was p***ed along to him from the guy he bought it from that it was built by MTS was testimony to its integrity and dependability on a known companys good name, insuring its asking price, I was also trusting his word and experience..If he was not sure, and could produce no paperwork he should not have used their name (then I would of haggled the price, if you get my drift)..I fully understand "as is, where is" I use it all the time..I was an idiot and this is a lesson learned, if I was prepared to meet the sellers price I should have demanded a reciept/build sheet from MTS, if He could not produce one then I would of p***ed or haggled price (and gotten a cheaper piece of junk)..The seller was over at the shop looking at the project and the cratered engine, his comment "Gee, I'm glad I didn,t put that engine in my truck" kinda stings..I don't expect him to whip out his wallet, and have asked him to help me get back to the guy he bought it from to see if there is any paperwork..MTS told me if I could produce paperwork they would help out somehow...Any similar experiences? buying a fresh engine can be a real pig in a pokesack..I know, I know, build it yourself, I wish I did have access to a machine shop..and lotsa time..and didn't have to work...
I've had a few "professionally" built motors turn to ****. Had a valve seat fall out of a 302W with less than 1000 Ks on it. Just recently had a Clevo chop out a cam and lifters real bad in less than 100 Ks. And with the Clevo, the shop managed to bore the valve guides, but forget to put the K-lines in. But somehow cut the valve seats. It ****s. But at least the Caddy is heavy - $120 a tonne round here.
****s man, that is a helluva lot of coin. And yeah, for that kind of money I'd expect him to break out his wallet, maybe meet you halfway? If he's such a great guy I'd have thought he'd have done this or something else already. I just bought an used , recently rebuilt engine from a friend. No money changed hands till we got it running and verified it wasn't f'ed up. It runs and no knocks or pings so the money went into his pocket. The waterpump gaskets went south and a few little things, but that's to be expected on a used motor, no biggie. Seriously though, I'd expect a helluva lot of my money back, like half or all but $500, if the engine is junk. $3500 is a *LOT* for a used motor that you never woulda spent if it wasn't a friend deal, with recourse. I just sold the old 305 out of my car for $250 to another hamber. It ran fine for me but I priced it low so just incase it blew up he wouldn't be too pissed. If he came back and said it spun a bearing or something cuz of rainwater or rust or something, well I'd come to an agreement about how much to refund. I represented it as running, and if it wasn't, then I gotta be a man of my word. If he doesn't make it right he's just unscrupulous. How he could be so unconcerned and make a snarky comment just pisses me off. If he's a real man his word should be good.
I'd think up a new nickname for the guy, and every time he comes over it will remind him what a ****bird he is. Most of my disasters have been ***ociated with things bought from "friends." Trades especially go bad for me. I just don't have it in me to lie and steal, but many car people take it to an art form. Someone once said that if cars were never invented, these people would all be in a carnival watching people pitch dimes, and handing out stuffed animals...
that ****s man , i know this because i have a similar situaton as i bought an engine off a friend as well that was suppose to have been rebuilt and ready to go , well same as yours "its ****" couldnt use it as a boat anchor so i decided to hang the ****er in a tree , dont know why i did just seemed like the thing to do at the time , my old lady asked me what im gonna do with it ?? im gonna spray it christmas colors and put lights on it , and im gonna make sure my brother sees it everytime he's over...
Telling you "Geez, I'm glad I didn't put that engine in my truck" is also telling you that he is one big pile of **** with absolutely no integrity. Talk about adding insult to injury.
Man that's kind a tough coming from your brother But I think if it was me I would have hung it in HIS tree>>>>.
Yeah, no ****. 3500$ is a ****LOAD for a used engine, and if he charges you that, and then comes over and makes comments of that nature - **** that guy. He's a long time stand up pillar of **** and nothing more. The only thing long time about this guy is how long of a time he's been ****ing people with a broomstick. I think your biggest problem here was not taking this guy for his word, but for completely misjudging an obvious douchebag as some sort of upstanding member of the hotrod community(or just as a decent person in general). You may want to take a look and how to judge people and be a little more critical in the future.
what a douche bag huh? i wouldn't be able to sleep at night if i did that to someone. but that's just me.
I'd have a hard time coughing up $3500 for ANY engine. And if I did, it would have some receipts coming with it. Yes, lesson learned. And your "upstanding member" is a real ***hole to just let you take it in the **** like that. What a complete jerk, and his comment just makes my blood boil. Good for you that you didn't rearrange his face with your fist, you're more of a man than me.
Chris over at http://www.cad500parts.com is here on the HAMB. You should send him a PM or email. ~Jason
The Jalopy Journal
