Strange Chrysler Hemi number

Okay Hemi guys, I found myself in an early Hemi I.D. pickle... I've got a 354 sitting here with a number I can't seem to cross reference. It appears to have been one of those Dodge truck transplants, but I can't seem to find an exact match. It has FirePower rocker covers, but they could have been changed. I thought all the Dodge transplants had rocker covers with no markings.

Anyway, the number is VT448-1110

If someone has a good book, help me out. Can't figure out year and model. Checked even my own index and none of the sights listed have the exact model, so I'm hoping one of thas awesome books you guys have would have it.

Thanks guys!
Scooter

 

Nevermind... I just called Bob Walker... It is indeed a truck motor, but it's NOT a 354! F*&#! It's a 331 with car heads on it.

 

I Was Going To Say The First Hemis Like That Were A 331, Lol
You Got It

 

Okay... I actually AM going to bump this up. I still cannot find the number that casting number anywhere. I could tell before I had the whole number out that he came to the conclusion that it was a truck motor. I don't think he actually looked for a cross reference. Were there 354 truck motors?? Could he have made a wrong ***umption??

I've been pickin' through things without doing surgery and I found the heads to be 1956 354 car heads. I'm going to pull the heads soon and see what's in the holes. I'm finding even MORE weird stuff as I go. Just doing an inspection with a flashlight down the plug holes, the p***enger side bank of pistons say 392 on them and the left side say nothing. There's no way someone could have jammed 392 pistons in there if it's a 331 and not found themselves mighty close if not INTO the water jackets...

Holy confusion Batman! Someone help me out here!!

 

Okay... after some digging I DID find the number. It is indeed a 1956 331 Truck motor.

With the things I'm seeing so far, I have a feeling this is going to get interesting!

 

Wow Good Luck, Id Love To Find The Original 331 Hemi For My Chrysler

 

What year and model Chrysler?

 

1953 Chrysler Windsor Delux

 

I have a 1953 Chrysler 331 block. It's out of a New Yorker. Should be the same. Probably going to have it cleaned up and machined. Let me know if that interests you.

 

Scooter, for the moment lets ignore the '392' on the top of the piston since the head is still on. Check the side of the block, you're looking for a 'W' cast between soft plugs. I've only been messing with these for about 30 years so I can't claim to know everything, but, every block that I have found with a 'W' has been a 354 block and when used in the truck they were only bored to 331 size. This is based on sonic measured wall thickness. In this cir***stance you could bore the block to 4" and use the 392 piston. You will lose compression but it has been done. Now, as for the '392' on the piston, any bodies guess.
Now, again, I'll not claim to have every serial number known, I don't think that is possible and I doubt every number is catalogued, but in my spare time (ha ha) I'll put a list together of what I do have and you can add it to your tech index if you like.

 

You ROCK! Thank you! When I get in the shop tomorrow I will look at the block and see if I see a W anywhere.

So, you're saying that if it's a "W" block then it's actually SAFE to bore it to 392, or is this considered an "extreme" over-bore?

Interesting stuff here!

 

Okay, I just checked out the block and it is indeed a "W" block!!! Now I REALLY want to know what's in those holes!!

If it trully has been bored to 4.00" then that would make the engine a 364!

 

If a stock 392 piston has been installed then expect the compression to be around 8:1. Remember that the 392 has less dome volume and that you have less swept volume....Ross can fix that!!
...although 8:1 would be just right for a turbo....

Also, 0.060 is not extreme, but sonic check if you need to go more.

 

HA! Just sent you a PM! Thank you sir! I'm feelin' good about this! And yes! I agree! "Ross" is the word! Heads will come off tonight to see what's in there.

Psyched!

 

Scooter- I know we're not out of the woods yet, BUT... it seems that things are looking better than they were yesterday, huh? I lost a little sleep last night thinking about it. I hope I don't have to end up building another car around that engine just to se if it works! This should be at least educational, if not at least entertaining. Keep me updated.

 

scooter,
That number is a 1956 truck 331 it is listed on hotrods and hemis web site. If it was bored to 4 inches for the 392 pistons how much more can you go if it needs another bore job?

 

YEP! That's the only place I found it too!

I think the mystery is solved now. Just have to see what slugs were dropped in the holes now. I'll have an update on that tomorrow!

 

Don't sweat it! Unless there is something seriously wrong that is visually apparent, I think we can all sleep good tonight! I have to admit, I could use a little shut-eye tonight too! HAHA!

 

Hes got it, even if it's one of the underbored 354s, it's maxed @ 392. If there isn't anything wrong with the cylenders, you might get by with a honing & slightly oversize rings. Other than that. you're talking sleeving 8 holes.

 

Yep! Sounds about right...

 

Okay! Here's the verdict! It indeed has 392 pistons in it! They are forged pistons of some make. They appear to dome about .300 inches, so there is some compression increase for sure. Anyone recognize the pistons??





Also... the bores look beautiful and it looks to be a pretty fresh motor. There's only one little detail that worries me...






...this block has been bored to 4.040"!!!!! I hope someone knew what they hell they were doing. I guess there's only one way to find out... right? I guess we'll see what 368 cubic inches of Hemispherical Chrysler will do!

So anyone know what a "W" block can be bored out to?? How about a 354?? What's the max a 354 could be bored out??

Any thoughts on what the "W" stands for??

 

Any thoughts on the piston make?

 

The standard answer is a 354 shouldn't go over 4". If that block # is 1619829 it's a 354 truck block number.

 

Scooter, just curious...why the worry about how much bigger could you make the holes ?? You say the bores look good, and you have forged pistons. So now that the heads are of why not check the dome volume and find out exactly how much squeeze 'ya got ??
Perhaps someone used a extra hi comp piston knowing that some would be lost just to get something usable...it doesn't matter what the pistons started life as, only what they are now.

 

Right, we've definitely established that. The real question is... how far can you take that block over? Whoever bored this thing must have had some very positive results on a sonic test! The work on the engine I see so far looks pretty solid actually, but DAMN that's a big bore! 4.040"!

 

Yes! I fully agree! They are what they are. Just curious I guess. Was thinking maybe there was a particular maker that stamped their pistons like this or something.

Anyway, I definitely DON'T want to take it over and have no plans of making any changes at this point., just concerned about blowing through a cylinder wall or something. I have no plans of pushing this to racing extremes, but I'm not going to say that I'll be gentle with this motor either.

 

Hold On ! 4.040" ? That is 392 + 0.040...You may be OK, it has been running, but don't spend any more time or money until you get the wall thickness checked. Check that down fill !

 

Yeah, that's what' I'm saying! HAHA! Now you know why I'm concerned.

What do you mean by "check that down fill"? How can I check wall thickness without taring it down?

 

Two seperate operations...check the downfill, then, when you pull it down to freshen it (you were going to freshen it, wern't you ??? ) check the walls. Based on wall thickness, you may or may not want to continue with this particular asembly. If the wall thickness is deemed suitable, then, in my world, tanking the block, installing new cam bearings, replacing the tower bushing (if it was alum) and doing a general mag inspection is simply the minimum before I would reuse this type of package. Unless your'e eating Top Ramen three times a day this is money well spent.

 

Gotcha! This is general process for rebuild anyway. The motor looks to be VERY fresh rebuild already, but has just sat for awhile. I was going to put the heads back on and just leave it alone for the time being, or until it gave me problems. THEN I was going to tare it all down and see what's up. Someone has definitely put some time and money into this engine already.

The guy that built the motor is Andy Clary, from Lake Havasu. Ironically I think I actually MET him once at a swap meet! Small world! He's an old racer. The guy I bought the motor from (BAM above) talked to him and he said he wasn't very helpful and didn't seem to remember much either. I wasn't even going to bother with him. Figure I've got what I've got...

The word seems to be that this engine was run once since it was rebuilt and had good oil pressure and no problems, but has since sat (however long that may be). There seemed to be oil in the usual places when I pulled the heads off, so that tells me things are pumping and I still planned on dropping the pan to do a visual anyway. I was also going to pull the timing chain cover to see if I could see some markings on the cam snout and inspect the timing chain. Anything else I should check out before attempting to fire this thing up?

Going to order head gaskets in a bit too. Do I need to order that 392 +.040 head gaskets that HHH offers? They are like $38 EACH!!! OUCH!! Going to order the trans adapter and freeze plugs also.