How many hours are you spending on boxing the frame? I am getting ready to do a 31 sedan but have not welded before so would like to know what kind of time someone that knows what they are doing would spend. Depending on the time I may have someone else do it for me or just learn myself and possibly save some money. Thanks, Kerwin
The guy that built my frame probably had 40+ hours in it.... and that was building from 2x3 tubing... will most likely have more than that boxing the frame if you have to fill all those little holes that is in the stock frame...
It is just a stock frame. I am leaning towards getting a 302 w/automatic and putting that in. I found a T-BIRD fairly cheap so would have the engine/trans/rear and anything else I may need. Is it difficult to learn how to weld? What would be a good starter unit that would do a good job for a beginner?
Just a suggestion... Resist the temptation to think that your hot rod is anything LESS than a "real" car. It is a REAL car. It (eventually) will move at a rapid velocity. It needs a motor and transmission and brakes and an E-BRAKE and proper Ackerman and drive line phasing and safe steering and it needs to be square and plumb and all that... In short, unless it constructed properly, with skill and precision and proper attention dedicated to safety and appropriate construction hygiene...it will, at best, require constant upgrades to remain functional. At worst, it will fail and hurt you or someone else, or worse. Don't learn to weld on your first car project. Learn to weld elsewhere, and when you have learned and mastered the vocabulary and discipline of fabrication, proceed accordingly. This being your first project? FORGET the term "saving money" when it comes to fabrication. This is NOT an inexpensive hobby. Pay whomever you need to pay to get the job(s) done right. End of story. There is no alternative, if you don't have the skills. You can (and should) learn the skills, but in the interim, pay to have them done right. Period. Here is a suggestion. You will eventually want a decent welding table. You know, something that is level, square, that you can mount a vise to and rely upon to build bracketry and whatnot...so, build that first. It won't kill you if your skills weren't up to snuff. It will, however, force you to learn about welding and fitting and joining and grinding processes...it will teach you about materials and math and preparation and what size wire (or rod) and gas and welding process to use... I can't emphasize this enough. DON'T learn to weld on your first car project. My $.02
I have to agree with this... don't want to discourage anyone from wanting to build there own(or offend anyone), but I know my limits when it comes to welding... it was well worth the money I spent on my frame... at this point, I would never put my life(or anyone else's) in the hands of my welding...
I started this project some three years ago. I had only stick welded before and that was some 25+ years prior. I have built a number of cars and had never done any welding myself. First, my wife bought me a Miller MIG welder, I went out and bought a 2 hour long tape and watched it maybe 4/5 times. I bought the steel to make myself a "frame jig" that I designed myself. I learned to weld making the frame jig...............then after putting the stock Model A frame on the jig I took the center cross member out/z'd the frame and welded in a Daggels Street Rod X member. I got a set of full length boxing plates, then proceeded to cut oval holes in the boxing plates to match the ones in the X member. Cutting the oval holes took about 40 hours (this was done off the frame), welding them in took about 15/20 hours as I didn't work on them 8 hours a day. In total it took me about 3 weeks to strip the frame, weld in the X member and boxing plates and Z the rear. I then took it to a friend who has been building frames for some 25+ years for him to inspect and he actually TIG'd the steering and brake mounts because the metal was too thick for my little 160 Miller. If you learn how to weld (even with a video tape), then go practice for at least 10/20 hours like I did................I can see no reason you can't do this yourself as long as you have mechanical skills and have worked on cars before. I was slow, methodical, used common sense and didn't hurry......................mine turned out OK.................... IMHO
Just about anyone can weld but it takes experience to weld correctly. When I boxed mine I spent most of my time in preperation. If you do decide to do the work yourself go to a metal supply house and have them cut you boxing plate to the correct hight. This saves tons of time. If there is a way you can flip your frame over that will be good. A new person wanting to weld is one thing but, laying on your back and welding is another thing. Like the other guys have said this is a large safety factor on your build. You need to have a buddy that can weld work with you and teach you as you go.
BinderRod is correct and I will say that I wouldn't start building or changing a frame without some type of frame jib, however simple it is, it needs to be able to hold the frame in perfect alignment while you weld on it. I know, alot of guys modify frames without one, but making sure this frame is assembled and welded correctly is the key to a good suspension and good handling car. So, if you don't want to construct some type of frame jig, then I would have to say farm this work out to someone that does...................to make sure it is built correctly. This is a picture of crude frame jig, the cost was about $250 and I learned to weld putting it together. When the frame sits on the ground side to side difference is about 1/32" measured with a laser...................not too bad for a homebuilt. http://groups.msn.com/FordFlathead1...av85window.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=3000 IMHO
I like everyone else I think would like to save some money where we can, but I agree that the welding needs to be done correctly. I am not expecting the car to be done in a short time and would like to learn to weld so would like to get a quality welder that will do the job on both the frame and some body panels that I will need to replace. Can someone recomend a good welder that is easy to get started with? Are there any books or DVD's that I could get that would help me along the way? I am also looking to take a class if I can find one in my area. Thanks for all the help..
I just bought a Millermatic 180 with AS. Its the best "beginner" welder out there. Comes with a small DVD but go to USAWELD.com they have HOW TO dvd's on welding. A 45 min video or was it 2 hours. not sure. But looked to be a great video. otherwise search HOW TO WELD on ebay. I always use EBAY when trying to find stuff. there are some on there. My welder is on the way now. I am buying the video and i have a friend who welds @ John Deere 50 hours a week who is going to help me set up and practice on a bunch of scrap. Im going to be making "ART" with random pieces until I'm confident in my welding then its all out in the air..lol Im interested in this Frame jig, not to hyjack your thread, but that seems like a ton of room taken up in the 3 car just for the frame. and where do I store it after Im done? Might be farming out some of my frame work when it gets too crazy.
Tried to find more pictures and will continue to look. The frame jig was only 4' wide by 10' long. Did take up bay of the 3 car garage. As far as I'm concerned it more than paid for itself. When I was finished with it I donated it to the local Model A Club.
Check out your local community college for welding courses. Without welding experience, you will not know if the pass you just made is a good weld or not. It is possible for a weld to look pretty, but not have any integrety at all. This comes with experience. Get some practice, and then weld a couple of plates together. Saw them in two so you can see what penetration you have. Welding is 20% knowledge, and 80% experience. Bob
a frame jig or heavy duty weldonh table is fine if you are going to be doing dozens of frames. But if you are doing one, and you KNOW how to weld, they aren't needed. Simple jack stands, well prepped weld area, good fitting boxing plates, a very good tape measure, level, and friend (to hold the tape), and you're in business. Weld, measure, check, weld, measure, check, weld, measure, check,. You get the idea. No sense spending hundreds of dollars on steel you might use just one time.
IF ya knew how to weld, and obviously you don't---It takes a 2 day weekend to box a frame. Two 8 hour days. and thats for an experienced builder. Set the frame up level on stands about 24" high and check for any parallelograming and pull the frame "square" now, because after you add boxing plates you won't be able to. 1--make cardboard templates from frame to use for laying out boxing plate shapes. 2--cutting out boxing plates, either with sabre saw, or oxy acetylene. 3--grinding edges of plates and trial fitting 4--proper edge preperation of boxing plates to ensure good weld penetration 5--Tacking boxing plates in place.--6--Turning frame over 265 times as you tack the plates. 7--welding about 3" in one place at one time, then jumping to another place and welding 3" there to avoid heat build up and consequent distortion. 8--Grinding any welds that are going to show, generally from the firewall foreward for good "cosmetics". Oh, by the way---You did have your front and rear crossmember and your motor and rear transmission mounts in place, didn't you.---Ya don't want them just hanging off the boxing plates.---There is a bit more to this frame boxing than meets the eye----
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