HELP please, My 54 chevy has a pontiac 400 in it that is giving me heat soak problems, timing is good, I can even pull the coil wire to kill the spark and it won't crank, new starter, new remote solenoid, 1/0 battery cable, 900 cca battery, car will not crank after setting and temp gauge is at 200. If i stop for gas I better wait 15 to 20 mins to restart, have even wrapped starter with heat wrap and installed a heat sheild. I want to drive this thing and it is embarrasing when you pull a crowd of people at a gas station and it won't start. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated thinking of a mini starter, but I don't want to spend 150 bucks if not needed.
I think it may be the solinoid . Years ago Delco had fits with hot soak probs.See if you can get a gennie Delco D 981 I believe the update number was.
Is the ground cable going to the frame or the motor ? It needs to go to the motor than to the frame and body .
Hi the problem is not the solinoid. the windings in the starter motor are what is getting hot and causing the resistance the only sure way I have solved this on my chevys is to use a late 80s early 90s chevy truck starter it is a mini permanenet magnet starter if a chevy starter will fit your motor try it if not get a mini permenant magnet starter Ihave tried everything you listed and nothing worked on mine I talked to a starter rebuilder and he was the one who told me about the windings being the problem not the solinoid hope this helps heres the car I was having the problem with
sucks i had similar problem that turned out to be timing was off. Would start just fine when cold, then with some heat it wouldn't want to start, just make a slow sound while turning over. Fool with your timing and see if it makes a diff. I think that's the prob. Let us know what happens!
I fought the exact same problem for almost a year on a fresh build. I welded a stud to the frame for the ground cable trying to be smart when I first built it. 25 years later I still have a new solenoid that didn't fix the problem either. I built a heat shield. I replaced starters. I was very skeptical about moving the ground cable but I was so frustrated that I'd try anything. I moved the ground cable from the frame to the trans. tail shaft housing and when I did the problem disappeared. Needless to say I'm a big proponent of running the ground cable directly to the engine or trans housing. It's also good to file away the paint where the connection is made. When it's cold the extra electrical resistance is no big deal but when it gets hot the added resistance of the heat is the straw that breaks the camels back. I was hard headed and didn't believe it back then. I'm a believer now!! If you have the ground directly on the engine or trans, then still think in terms of less than ideal electrical connections causing added resistance in the whole circuit. If you have a bunch of connections in the battery cables, any one of them could be the cause. Any added resistance can put it over the top when it's hot. There is nothing more embarrassing that a cool car that won't start when everyone is watching.
thanks for the ideas but the ground was the first thing that I checked, ran new 1/0 cable from front of block to frame and also removed paint where cable is connected, I thought the same thing about timing but I can take out timing to the point the car wont hardly rev and it makes no difference, I had a similiar problem on a drag car and just put a spark kill on it until engine was turning over and then would turn on the spark. I cant get this thing to even get to that point.
It sounds like you have done all of the normal fixes to try to eliminate the problem, remote solenoid, big battery, big cables. You didnt mention how it was grounded but it does need to go straight to the engine and good frame to engine and body to engine grounds are necessary too. What kind of compression are you running? I had a similar problem many years ago when I put 305 heads on a 350 with flat tops. Started great when it was cold and would turn over fast enough when it was hot. It would always start hot when boosting it so I ended up putting an extra battery on it (76 chevy pickup with room on both sides for battery for diesel application). Then when I learned how small the 305 combustion chambers were I installed a set of 76cc 350 heads and was able to take the extra battery off.
Probably right! What are your piston and bearing clearances? Motor getting tight when hot? Just fishing.
Haven't ran compression test to see what cranking compression no. are but it runs fine on 87 octane with no detonation problems. Engine is supposed to be around 9 to 1.
I think tonight I will add a ground to the bellhousing and the local starter shop says they can turn my starter into a super torque starter with heavier field coils and solenoid. They said this is what they used to do before the mini-starters got easy and reasonable to get. Also they said that if it doesn't work they can take it back in trade towards a mini-starter.
If you add a ground jumper it has to be the same gauge as the battery cables because it needs to be heavy enough to carry the amperage load of the hot starter. A small ground jumper that you see on many cars is not meant to carry the load of the starter. They are there to ground the accessories that don't draw anything near the amps of a warm starter. A heavy jumper from the frame to the engine may solve the problem but you have added another mechanical connection it the staring system that could corrode and cause problems later. That's why I like to run the battery ground directly to the engine.
Totally solid advice above, but once you've addressed the grounds it's time for a high quality ministarter. Preferably an aftermarket one that can be specifically clocked for maximum exhaust clearance. Side benefit, I've come to really appreciate the low-voltage cranking they offer and prefer to use them on anything non-daily just cause they often eliminate the need for a jump start. (That alone is worth the price difference IMO) good luck
So what does it do exactly when you try to start it when it's hot? I'd bet that at this point, something that you think is fine, is not. Timee to get a second opinion, I think you need a fresh set of eyes on that thing. JMHO and good luck
sorry took abit to get back, Very bad day at work. Damn near got fired for going the extra step to help a customer at my store, there are some people that think you cannot take anyone at face value anymore. Anyway when the car is hot it acts as if the timing is way high, maybe half a turn and stops. I can disconnect the coil and it makes no differance at all. I figured that would eliminate the timing as the problem. I talked to a old rodder today at the store that said I need to make sure the carb is not dripping fuel into the the intake and basically vapor locking the engine. As anyone had this before. Again thanks for the feed back, I am planning a road trip with my girl and want this fixed. Hell I had the new starter smoking yesterday. I think I inadvertantly took out my bad day on the car.
I agree. Had same problem with my first car 35 years ago (Chevy 396). Had the same problem with a 93 GMC Jimmy with 4.3. Never had the problem when I started the car the first time for the day, only when I stopped somewhere after the car was warmed up (like for gas). Never had the problem in the winter, only when it was hot outside.
FWIW, I'd sure try running a ground cable from the battery directly to the block if it's not already hooked up that way. I had so many problems with one I seem to remember I had a battery with both top and side posts and I put a second cable off it to a different place on the motor, because I had one laying around.
If it starts fine cold---and you know your charging system is working---and you have to let it cool to start--you have worn starter bushings--basically a worn out starter--go see you freindly rebuilder
Had my shop for 25 plus years and used to say the same thing. The super torque bs is just new Hi torque field coils and a 132 wind switch . Get the car up to temp where it useally wont start and load test the battery. Then check the cranking amps of the starter. Your starter shop should be able to do that. Any shop should have a meter they can put on it.
Old time story. My dad had a 51 International, bad hot start problem, starter drag. One day we are at the local blacksmith and he says "I can fix that" He yanks the starter, pulls the armature and chucks it into a lathe, cuts around .030 if I remember right. Never had another hot start problem with that binder.
I'm having the exact same problem with the 460 in the E350 I pull my car hauler with. Except it takes longer than 15 to 20 min. for it to restart. I don't shut the thing off until I know I'm parked in my pit slot for the night. It has it's third starter in it and nothing has changed. Do they make a better starter for the 460, or is it just running better grounds?
Get yourself a can of compressed clean air(as used for electronics) let engine run and thoroughly heat soak to duplicate problem. When it won't start pop dist. cap and empty can on electronic ignition trigger,snap cap back on and hit starter QUICKLY. She might just fire for ya and you will have your answer.
I may not be helping much, but I have had that hot-start problem on a few different cars over the years. On my Stude pickup, it was a boiling carb. I "cured" it by turning off the electric fuel pump about 15-20 seconds before shutting off the engine. I got in a habit of flipping the switch OFF while I was still travelling across the parking lot, so when I got in the parking stall and turned off the engine, there usually was just a tiny puddle left in the carb. It started very easily when I did it that way. If I forgot, it was hard to start. On my Cadillac 472 powered Hawk, I had the GM starter fixed several times. I had a starter heat shield, wrapped pipes, added a remote solenoid, even bolted a small air-deflector to the edge of the frame rail to fan some cool air into the starter. All of it helped some, but it didn't completely go away until I took one of the starters I have tried, one more time to a different shop. The guy said "I know what to do about that". He took it to another room and welded on something. Part of the case I think. Then he brought the starter back and said that there was a piece of rolled iron that was curled into a round shape, but the "crack" was left unwelded. (the case, or something just inside the case I think) It would "open up" slightly when things got hot, and greatly reduced the power of the starter motor. He said the factory should have been welding those gaps closed but just didn't do it in order to save a couple nickels. Don't ask me for details, I don't know the details. It cured the problem. The low mileage, but 15 year old, 1957 Chrysler HEMI that I used to drive long long ago back in high school days had a hot-start problem. One old Popular Science question-and-answer column (I think it was ASK SMOKEY -yes Smokey Yunick himself) described a situation where the engine block would have a lot of crud accumulation in the water jackets causing uneven heating and cooling, and therefore block distortion, causing the engine to be very hard to turn over when hot. A good chemical flushing and lots of clean water rinsing of the cooling system seemed to make a good bit of difference on the Chrysler, so Smokey's crud buildup theory seems plausible to me.
2 things load check the battery, and use at least 2 gage cable 2/0 is much better. And run ground cable to near as poss to the starter.A Optima battery is also good.
You said you have a remote solenoid. Is it done this way? http://www.oldengine.org/unfaq/solenoid.htm This solved the problem in my BBC powered motorhome.
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