I am building a lightweight 4-banger on an as-yet-undetermined frame, and I'm trying to decide what rear to run. I'd like it to be posi, but something fairly small and lightweight. I know some mail Jeeps came with posi Dana 44s, can anyone suggest a smaller, lighter rear that was available as a posi?
Have you considered something imported? I know a lot of the older Jap stuff was rear wheel drive & components were small & light, yet reasonably strong. You'd likely need to alter the bolt pattern, but that's what hot rodding is all about, right? Ford 7.5" rear was avail w/posi - look in early Fox-body cars (Mustang, Capri, Fairmont, T-bird, Cougar, etc)
I had a turbo monza and a Chevette with them. The Monza was an odd one and the Chevette a 4 door. I'm not sure the Monza was a stock turbo either. It was 25 to 30 years ago. Sorry I can't be more help. One other thought is the Triumph TR7 and the v8 Vega/Monza/Starfire.
A local hot rod guru turned me onto the early stude goldenhawks, narrow Dana 44's with the 5&1/2" early ford spacing. Jeeps and early bronco's are always good canidates but not all that leightweight, Firebirds can be "mildly" lightweight/small. -Torr
Mopar 8 3/4 might be one to choose... or an Old Ford Banjo with a spool... banjos are ultra effecient and light weight. Sam.
I'm with Sam...8 3/4 would be a good one, as it has a sheetmetal housing. So does a 9-inch, but in that case, smaller and lighter would be the 8-inch. I just pulled the Dana 44 out of my '62 Suburban, and it's not light weight, but it isn't a million pounds either. If you want to be silly about it, Ultimate Driveline in Michigan can put thinner tubes in any cast-center housing (Dana 44/60, 12-bolt, 8.8, etc) to save weight. (269-792-2776) If it were me, I'd look at the 8-inch, Mopar 8 3/4 and Dana 44, in that order. Jay at Ultimate could tell you which is lighter, too. -Brad
I think even 8", as great a rear as that is (and one of my favorite, underrated rears) is going to be bigger & heavier than something like a Toyota Supra rear...avail with decent gear ratios & posi. Of course, we're back to oddball bolt patterns... As mentioned above, the Stude Dana 44 is narrow. The True-Track factory lockers bring big bux, but you can hunt down a posi unit for them - they're the older 19-spline style. They also have "fragile" tapered keyed axles - like a banjo, but a couple folks make updated bolt-in axles for 'em.
Toyota axles, V6 and the 4WD Tacomas. If you find a 4WD axle with posi, 2WD axle shafts will bolt in place. Its a 7 3/4" axle, and they don't weigh more than 200 lbs fully ***embled. Got one in my garage I was considering using.
1st generation Mazda RX7 rears are popular with kit car/roadracers that use a non-irs rear. Lots had limited slip and theres a wide range of gears.
Always had problems with 8 3/4 rears - even a so called pro rebuilt one - tossed em all. Always way too much endplay and non stop bearing and seal issues. How about a Euro rear end such as the aluminum Alfa found in the 1960/70/80's Alfa spiders and the "Bert one" coupes and sedans. Some, but not all were posi. In fact why not buy a rusted out Alfa spider donor car and get the glorious all aluminum DOHC and the five speed transmission all for a bargain. Junk the injection put on a couple of sidedraft Webers and you have one *****in, 'dare to be different' lightweight rod.
you can get an aluminum Dana 44. they are found in jeep cherokees. they are not known for being very strong but it doesn't sound like your after a lot of strength. they come in bolt and c-clip axles, with limited slip, discs but you could put any housing ends on and have axles made.. Brick
Small Toyota 2wd pickups are good. Ford bolt pattern and very strong. Pull the axles and you'll be amazed. A lot of rice guys use them at the drags here. Lots of ratios and 56 1/2" wide, though some vary between exactly what they come out of.
Hope this is not going O/T, but Don-Vee did say he was looking at building a lightweight 4 banger, so all this might be food for thought. I have had many Alfas and I have always thought these drivetrains have huge potential for a lightweight super trick rod - maybe their time has come. There are plenty of Alfa parts cars around as nobody in their right mind would restore a rusted out 1970s Italian car unless it ended in the letter 'i' and had twelve cylinders. (70's Italian sheet metal came delivered to Italy, pre rusted from the eastern bloc). Rear end was good for at least 240 hp in the Autodelta 2000 Gtam racers of the era. Watch out for weak crunchy second gear synchros - a known problem. The aluminum trans always needs the trans oil to be warmed before shifting into second. This is common in Italian cars of the era but Alfas are particularly prone to this problem. The ****a injection is junk but Weber manifolds for 40 DCOEs are often for sale on EvilBay. Euro versions had Webers until well into the 1970s. US got the ****a **** injection. Engine dimensions are approx 24" long x 20" wide x 26" high and weigh around 260 lbs all up. In fact the engine is probably shorter than a Model A 4 banger, and measured an inch shorter than my stock 1933 Willys 4 banger, so no firewall mods or clearance issues. Here's the 5 speed aluminum trans.
If it's shorter than a Willys 4-banger, it's much shorter than a Model-A banger... Alfa twin-cam is a popular swap in Morris Minors over in the UK - small, lightwight, good power for the size...not a bad looking little engine either.
Shhhhh... you'll push up the price of rusted out old Alfas! A friend has an Alfa 75 (as well as a bunch of cool old Fords) which has the 2.5l V6. They're a great looking engine and we've always talked about some kind of track roadster built with the Alfa running gear. A bloke in Sydney has been running around in this rod for a number of years. It runs an Alfa four-banger, but also has the transaxle and DeDion rear end, which makes for a lot of legroom, but was a bit of a ***** to fit it all in the relatively small Model A roadster body.
Mopar 8 3/4s in a variety of widths have worked very well for me. You can't hurt one with a 4 cylinder. I've also got 225K trouble free miles on the Dana 44 in my Cherokee with the 4.0L straight six. They aren't the lightest but are plentiful, inexpensive, have good parts availability and come in a wide variety of configurations. Also consider the Mazda RX-7 rear. And just for the hell of it, Austin Healys had stout diffs.
Vegas used 6.5s which are small and light but have no aftermarket support, and no used performance parts availability. I would personally seek a 7.5 GM. Light, efficient, cheap. Monzas and early S10 used 7.5 10 bolts (26 spline), which later morphed into 7 5/8 with stronger axles (28 spline) and beefier carrier. The guts interchange but you might need custom axles to use a 28 spline carrier in an early housing. I'd avoid the monza and camaro versions because they have a big funky torque arm mount cast into the pumpkin. Although the camaro versions would be the most likely to have a posi. 78-87 midsize G body 7.5 is probably too wide, not common with posi, Monte carlo SS was standard with a 3.73 gear and maybe a third of em had posi. S10 is probably the answer for a 3 series gear unless you stumble across a monte SS in your local pick-a-part. I've been seeing a lot of em junked lately, my buddy just parted one and sold the 3.73 open for $50. Here's the other thing, GM used weak-**** cone clutch posis when new, and they're all 25 years old & shot now. You're gonna go to all this effort to have something that still one-legs on dry pavement. Consider seeking out an open diff with a suitable gear, and then adding a powertrax that replaces the spider gears and fits into the stock case without gear setup. They turn up used on the bay occasionally, and guarantee you'll be powering both tires. good luck
This may be a bit off subject btt. Would you not want a open diff? Is the reason for building a light weight 4 banger hot rod not to get MPG's?? Would a posi not be less efficient than a open diff? Would you really need a posi with a 4 banger? Unless you are going to actually race it....mabe autocross a Model A ??? This is not posted to be sarcastic, just some thoughts..... And I'm with the others......That Alfa driveline looks good!!
The man makes a good point! I talked to a guy once who races a '62 Mopar in the Silver State (it's a red car...you've probably seen it in mags). He runs an open dif, because testing and experience showed that he got a several more MPH over running a posi...less horsepower robbing drag. -Brad
Run a '79-'85 55" Toyota PU 8" live rear axle and do the electric locker swap from a later model front diff. http://home.4x4wire.com/erik/diffs/
Your best bet definitely is the Toyota live axle. -Plentiful. The damn things are everywhere. -Cheap. The damn things are everywhere. -Strong as hell. They're usually left in place when guys do V8 swaps in 4x4 Toys and will easily handle the power of a small block. -Designed well. It's a scaled down 9" Ford. -M***ive aftermarket and factory support. Any ***end you find in a junkyard, either 2 or 4wd, will work- though they did put the 7.5" in some 2wd though you can tell the difference easily enough. They all have 30 splines and 8" ring gear, and the gearing available will be as follows- 3.90 4.10 4.30 4.38 4.56 4.88 '85 and earlier used 8" drums, '86 and later used 10" drums. A quick and dirty way to find the goods is to look for an IFS-equipped truck with a V6 or a turbo- IFS started in '86, and they used large bearings and thicker webbing in the rear behind the 6 and the turbo. As I recall, the gearing is incorporated into the ID tag on the door or firewall. Wheel pattern is standard 6 bolt.
1980's Dodge Dip and Fury police cars had 8 1/4" sure grip rears, usually about a 2.9-3 gearing. These rears are not hard to find so far.
Lots of good info there, but what's 'standard' about a 6-bolt diff? 2WD Toyota diffs are five-stud Ford patter, 4WD are six-lug for those that aren't aware.
Is this true for all Toyota p/u or just Australian versions? Just wondering cause 2 Aussies mentioned it. I figured Toyota would have some oddball metric pattern.
Pickup 2wd 80-95 5x114.3 Pickup 4wd, 4 Runner 80-95 6x139.7 4-runner 96-97 6x139.7 4wd Pickup 86-95 6x139.7
GM, Ford and Dodge 6 lug interchange with the Nissan, Toyota, Mitsu patterns. I've seen alot of "factory" escalade wheels used on mini trucks.
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