I've been doing a lot of research on frontends lately. Need to change mine out on a '40 coupe. I realize that the Mustang II kits they offer today are great, but they are way too expensive! I have seen a lot of Dakota frontends graphed to stock frames lately and think that it's a good alternative to the mustang II. (IFS, rack and pinion steering, correct track width, etc) Problem is, dakotas in cheap parts car form don't come around often around here. Was wondering if the caravans of that era had the same frontends? It's a hell of a lot easier to find them and they are dirt cheap, could probably buy 5 for the price of one mustang II. Anybody know for sure?
just ask el Polacko, dakotas are great, but they are not for everything. if this is a 40 ford, a dakota would be too wide at 61 inches. I am working on a 40 right now that has a mustang that has been narrowed, and it sits killer. When you look at the cost of rebuilding the junkyard components, and installing the clip, and doing it all right, I cant imagine that it would be all that much cheaper than a MII, or a dropped axle kit, both of whic work great under a 40.
Good point on the caravan, I should have known that. Had a brain-fart. A 1968 Dodge Dart left a bad taste in my mouth many years ago and since then I've avoided mopar like the plague. car is a '40 studebaker. Has primitive IFS (kind of) single leaf spring acts as lower control arm for both sides. Problem isn't the frontend, problem is the steering issue. They were orginaly a I6 car and so a lot of la***ude was taken with size and location of the steering box inside the frame rails. It also has a very weird center-link, pitman arm, tie rod set-up that has very weird geometry. What results is absolutely no room for headers or exhaust manifolds inside of the framerails. Besides, I'm not a fan of paying for expensive and hard to find replacement drum brake parts when I can have cheap disk brake parts instead. I've considered other options such as converting to a vega-type cross steer set-up, or a F-100 style drag-link set-up. But none of them seem to be good options. Best option is a Mustang II or subframe. I don't really want to fork out the $1800 for a M2 kit, when I can buy a parts car for $400 that could be just as good. Width between insides of backing plates is 53". Width to outsides of tires is 67".
Why not just cut all that Junk off and go back to a dropped axle? Talk about Cheep and easy. The Wizzard
cause it didn't have a straight axle in the first place. By the time, I'd be done fabricating a cross-member, buying an axle, spring, spring perches, shock mounts, hubs, brake parts, etc, etc.... it woudn't be any cheaper than a mustang II. I'm still leaning on the dakota as the second best option to a M2.
From the discription of the steering, it sounds like the bell crank setup used in the later Avanti/Hawk/Lark frames. Yes, header clearence is a problem. The only problem I had with the steering on a Lark I had was when a bearing wore out. It is a solid steering setup, never had any problems other that the bearing. Handled pretty good for a heavy car. They used upper/lower a-arms though, not like what I see in the pics. Is that suspension stock on the '40? Never got into the older models.
I am going to tell you to spend more money than you are already afraid to spend. If you can do a clip, then do so. Given the dimensions you provided you need something in the 58-60" wide track width range. That would be Mustang II to G-body GM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_G_platform_(RWD) Do not cheap out on the most important factors in building a car from s****s. Suspension, Steering and Brakes are of the utmost importance. If it drives like **** you won't enjoy it and if it doesn't steer or stop you are endangering those around you. Sub-framing is on the outset cheaper than just about any other form of IFS modification but in the long run can be just as expensive once you factor in rebuilding the components and modifying everything else around the sub-frame to make it all work. I use Mustang II in almost every application like this because it is very compact and will not interfere with sheet metal, grilles, radiators and steering hook up. It easily accepts about any engine combo you can throw at it and the spring rate is closely matched for the application in question. Yes, spending money and time is part of the game. Do it because you love this hobby not because you need an accessory to your lifestyle.
Yep, the frontend and steering is completely stock.... and in good shape to boot. I'm sure it handled pretty well for the weight back then. It's just problematic for shoehorning a V8 in there. That and the fact that the original car was built to handle 90hp... not 290hp like I plan to put in. (doing a rear swap to a chevy posi as well) ..... and no, I'm not going to consider running an I6 instead. haha
I owned a 40 Ford sedan delivery back in 1970. I put a Pontiac Tempest front crossmember in it. Chevell disc brakes went on with a little work but nothing that was difficult. Sat low and drove well. No header problems. If I read this right your big problem is exhaust, Right? Why not hand build headers. With just a little advice you can do it right at home. I've done this many many times for customers with the same problem. The Wizzard
Pontiac Temest, Olds F85 and Corvair are all the same platform thus same front end. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Y_platform Seen a ton of them over the years. It was the Mustang II of it's day.
well it's not the only problem. I'd rather have big disks that have a shot at stopping something instead of the old drum brakes meant for 1940's speed and handling. I'm not sure I trust 68 year old steering components either. I'm pretty savvy with frabricating. Hand built headers would not pose a problem. I've considered it before. But that steering knuckle in the picture lands right in the dead center of the #3 and #5 exhaust ports once the heads are on. It also is only about 2" away from the head at the exhaust ports. It would be extremely difficult and far from astheticaly pleasing to make a set of headers that would work. The only way to use headers with this configuration is fenderwell headers that will go over top of the steering.... and I'm not down with that for this project.
Tempest is not the same as Corvair but close. A frames mounted on a single bolt in crossmember. Larger A frames if I remember corectly and spindle hight the same as Chevelle. I believe I installed the Chevelle balljoints in the Tempest A frames and bolted on the Disc Brakes. It also uses a Saganaw 508 steering box out front of the crossmember. I don't remember it being difficult and worked well with a 396 and a T-350. The Wizzard
Wow, That's one Hell of a unit. I can say I've never seen one before but I doubt the U-Joints are stock 1940 units. With a little changing in the shaft you might be able to keep what's there. I think I'd get a double joint ( see Speedway part# 910-3220) and hang it on the box. That will let you pull the shaft away from the motor about 2" right off the box. That is if what you have isn't worn out. The Wizzard
It's a suprisingly modern design (similar to the cenetrlink/idler arm concept) for 1940. I'm sure I could save some space with changing out u-joints and messing with shaft geometry. But it doesn't change the brake situation..... also all the steering and suspension bushings are pretty much dry rotted and the brakes need to be completely rebuilt. If I was to spend the time hunting down and paying out the rear for the replacement parts, I don't think that I'd be any farther ahead. It's a damned if I do, damned if I don't situation as far as I can see.
Maybe I am crazy, but why wouldn't a rear steer rack and pinion mount to the existing x-member and give all the clearance you need? I bet with a little searching you could find junkyard parts or a kit to upgrade to disc brakes too.
hey 'rocket ive got a buddy in delaware putting a 318 in a 41 stude with custom made fenderwell headers give me a call and ill put you in touch with him maybe you guys can swap tech stories
Probably would work, but would be as non-cost-effective as any of the other options after it's all said and done. The suspension is old and tired, and needs lots of new bushings, which may or may not still be available today. But it is an option to consider......
That is a pretty cool looking front suspension system you have there. I would probably consider looking into a rack & pinoin with a disc brake conversion. Having said that, if the frame width at the firewall is close to a Dakota width, I'd cut off the old and weld in the new. But then, I have a Dakota sitting here. Either way your looking at dropping some money. You have to rebuild and/or update what you have, rebuild some clip and install it, or start with an all new MII. I have to wonder if a MII crossmember will fit on that frame with it kicking in so much at the center between the wheels. I suspect you looking at close to the same money any direction you go. You can spend the money and move forward or you can sit in the shop and look at it as the prices continue to rise. Gene
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