In an attempt to build a great handling shoebox I installed a Jamco Ultra Cruise ball joint/ disc brake conversion. The kit has 2.5" dropped spindles and 3" dropped springs. I also installed a "trick tie rod" kit from Fatman because the stock pieces were junk. I also installed a manual Volvo box. After bolting it all up and lowering the car I only have 3/4" clearance between the pitman arm and the tie rod. The same is true with the clearance between the idler arm and the p***enger side tie rod. I'm a little concerned and after brainstorming on several solutions I cannot come up with a good one. I am hoping there are some suspension spe******ts or others with this same setup that can help me out with some ideas.....Thanks
Sounds to me like your tierods are not dropped as far as the Spindle and spring combination. How's the ground clearance? The Wizzard
I'm using the same kit as he has and it uses ford granada spindles and disc brakes, along with balljoints. They aren't really drop spindles, but the side effect of putting them on is that it lowers the car. I wanted to run the tie-rod set up myself but now I'm afraid. What does the 3/4" mean as far as trouble? I'm not there yet so I don't know. Thanks
Sounds like limited travel with only 3/4" clearance. In the past I've made a drop unit for just the tie rod end for f-100 beam axles. Would probably work in this case as well. You half to watch out changing the angle between A frame and tie rod. You might be better off raising the Bump Stop to limit the travel so as to keep from making contact under full comperssion travel. The Wizzard
The steering arms and spindles are one unit. I am interested in the dropped tie rod adapter. Do you have any pictures? I am also thinking of making slightly longer tie rods and putting a 30-40 degree bend in them which will give it about 3" clearance. I don't know if this will cause a problem with bump steer or not. Anyone???
I know this doesnt help your problem, but I cant resist saying that I havent had the best experience with Jamco products in the past either.
i dropped my 51 by turning the spindles upside down and swapping sides, then you notice the steering arms are out of wack... so i heated them and bent them down a bit till the tie rods werent rubbing the frame and were close to how they were... never had a problem driving, with a tight steering box, this car drives great... i also have jamco shocks and 1990 heavy duty s10 front coil springs in it with a 1/2 coil lopped off...
how does the tie rod attach to the streering arm?could you flip that (ream the hole so it mounts below the arm rather than above?we did this all the time with jeep tie rods,they are mounted below, .helped angle when lifted and helped keep them from getting hit by rocks.
I know on the same year mercs with the jamco stuff, there is a kink in the tie rods right where they p*** under the pitman and idler arms, to give them a little more clearance. you do not need too much right there. Do you have good bump stops on the car? If there were no spring, and you could move the spindle through it's travel, how far up from ride height does the tierod travel at the point under the idler or pitman?
I don't have photo's of the piece but real simple to make. I use 1" plate and cut a piece 1 3/4" wide. Figguer out how far down to drop the tierod from the steering arm and cut the 1 3/4" piece that plus 1 1/2" long. Drill and tap 2 holes the correct distance apart. Thread in the rod end to one hole and use a Jamb nut on both sides of the plate to lock it. Buy a piece of grade 8 all thread (Left and right hand thread) and cut a piece for the bottom hole and nut it on both sides. Thread it into the tierod and your done. Basically your making a Z in the tierod end. I've done this countless times and never had a problem. You just want to watch the angle of the A frame and rod don't get to far apart. Dropped I beams aren't as critical since your not working with a pivoting link. The Wizzard
I was just in the Speedway book and spotted something that might be your answer. Check out there part #916-36055 The Wizzard
The funny thing about severe lowering on these old cars is we honestly believe we can somehow wish good handling back into a severely compromised design. I flipped the spindles on my shoebox, and heated and dropped the steering arms, and then had the whole thing aligned, its in alignment (5000 miles and no weird tyre wear) BUT the thing steers so heavy before you move off (parking) that there is no way most girls could park it. Doesnt matter, no one else drives it anyway! My point is that there will be compromise, the angles and relationships of all parts are ****ed with when you slam an old car, and there is always a trade off. One more thing..DONT bend the tierod arms 30 or 40 degrees...they rely on being straight for their strength (loaded in compression/tension along their length) and also you need to be able to spin them to adjust toe-in! and a spacer on the end of the steering arm is just plain bad engineering.think about the forces involved. If Im correct the Jamco tierod kit makes it like a 53-up with a longer tierod that meets the draglink near the centre, giving less arc movement of the tierod due to a longer length. the disadvantage is that it gets close to the pitman arm as you get lower.. now my car has no bumpsteer issues, so I would suggest going back to a shoebox draglink and tierods, they will alleviate the clearance problem as they start out near the pitman arm and dont approach the underside of the ch***is rail as quickly. Just get under the car(kinda hard with it that low!) and really lookat it all, the answer will dawn on you. thats how i work.
I had the same thing with My shoebox. I have the fatman dropped spindles-tierods and volvo box. I heated the pitman arm and bent it up and moved the idler arm up and fwd to cure mine. Then a smart level to insure they were both at the same angle. I totally agree with LOWSQUIRE. Mine works ok I was expecting more. FEDER
I don't know alot about shoe box steering geometry but I looked at a friend's shoebox linkage that had the same problem you had. So I'm agreeing with lowsquire's idea of using the original shoebox draglink and tierods. That original stock design doesn't seem to place arms and links crossing over each other like your pic shows.
I believe the problem comes from the sttering arm on the spindle being farther forward. I'm thinking of doing something like the attached drawing. Think it's safe?
When Jim Genty (founder of Jamco) was still alive, he had a reasonable working relationship with Fatman, so that they knew about compatibilities of their respective kits. For example, I wanted to use Fatman's dropped spindles with Jamco's disc brake kit on my '56. Both vendors knew what machining was necessary to use the two together, and cooperated so that I got compatible parts. I'm thinking that the two companies may be able to give you advice about the compatibility of the stuff you're using on your shoebox. Jim's two sons now run Jamco, and I don't know if they are as knowledgeable as their dad was, but it couldn't hurt to ask them.
That's just what I described for you to do. I've learned you must Thread the Holes in the Plate as well as Jamb nut it on both sides. That keeps it from rotating on the Threads. I think you'll do just fine. It's worked for me on Countless projects. The Wizzard
Thanks for the idea and the help Wizzard. Have you put many miles on the cars you've used this idea on? Do you think the weight of a Shoebox with a SBC will be a concern?
I don't see any problem with the Weight and the connecting link. I have been into the Custom Ch***is works since 1968. I think I did the first dropped F-100 axle in 1966. I used this method then for the Tie Rod and done countless ones since with no problems to date. It seems to be an "as needed" unit. I can tell you this, I've put 2 Jamco units on for customers in the past. One on a 50 Ford, one on a 51 Merc. At that time I did the best I could with what I had to work with and in a Very short time I did Frame Graphs for both Customers on said Car. We all have different ideas of good driving units. Some are blind to problems and some just sell them off. I won't install that Stuff anymore. I don't need the Headachs. On the same note, not everyone want's to do 50mph around a 35mph curve or get long mileage out of there Tires. Personally I want peace of Mind when my Wife, Children, or Grandchildren drive my cars. It's all bout what you want and how much $$$$$ you have to spend. The Wizzard
Now I have a new problem. The threads on the ball joint are 13/16-18 right hand thread on the drivers side and 13/16-18 left hand thread on the p***eger side. I cannot find a RH or LH tap that size anywhere. I also need the same size and direction bolts approximately 2" long. Does anybody know a good specialty tap and/or bolt store?
Are you sure you need 13/16 and not 11/16 like most Ford's are? Any big tool dealor should have them. Speedway has them listed 3/8 - 3/4 both left and right hand thread. I buy mine at M.K.C. tool here in Van Wa. 360-699-4575 The Wizzard
It's the threads on the tie-rod end not the ball joint that are in fact 13/16. It's the Fatman tie-rod setup and I believe they changed the size. I found some taps but the price is $60 and $168 respectively. That kills the dropped link idea.
Dang, thats pretty Spendy. How about calling some local Machine Shops in your area and just have them run the Taps after you drill the holes? 13/16 Left hand thread stock may be a problem also. I Love my Nova Graph more and a more every time I try to help Guys un-ravel there Aftermarket bolt on pieces. The Wizzard
The Jalopy Journal
