I've been helping my next door neighbor on one of his new projects. It's not "old school" but it will be different. If I can get the pictures to load, let me know what you think.
Looks like the turbo 4 barrel setup from an old Buick V6. What motor is that ? It'll be interesting if you can make it run properly.
It's an old turbo set up off a Pontiac Firebird. The motor is an 181ci iron duke chevy, stroked and bored to 201 c.i. As far as making it run alright, both me and my neighbor used to run turbo drag bikes with nitrous, so it will be a matter of tuning, tuning and more tuning to get it right.
[ QUOTE ] The motor is an 181ci iron duke chevy [/ QUOTE ] Negative, Chevy had 153's in Novas and 140's in Vegas. The "Iron Duke" was a 151 Poncho...
The 4 cyl. came out of an old inboard and our machine shop guy is the one who said it was a 181c.i. motor. We have a 151 that came out of a Nova, but did not want to use it as the bore was that small.
The 181 is a bored-out version of the 153 old-style Chevy II engine, which was essentially a four-cylinder version of the 250ci straight-six. See www.danielstrohl.com/sixinfo.asp for more info. The 181 was only used in outboards and other marine applications. Might actually still be available new from GM Powertrain. But yes, the Iron Duke nomenclature was used primarily for the later 151cid engines. Everybody confuses the 151s and the 153s because they're both 2.5L four-bangers. From what I've seen, the only parts they share are the lifters. dan
The 181 is known around the boat yard as the Mercruiser 3.0. Lots of 'em out there. Clifford used to list parts for this mill but I'm not sure they still do. REJ if you guys can get it running well that rig is going to flat haul ***. Full points for crazed originality. Me likey banger buckets.
Does anyone have a source for intake and exhaust manifolds for this motor? Would a T5 trans clutch and flywheel bolt on and work?
That thing is waaaaaay cool! Keep us posted on its progress. A T5 should work with an old Nova, Monza sereis or S10 bell housing. There were 4 cyl Camaros and Firebirds in the mid 80s too. I dunno what flywheel they use, though. If no one gets you an answer, I have a freind who has done two of those engines in mods, I'll check with him this weekend.
Cool,different and lot's of information. Make's the idea's fly.....turbo'ed and electronic inj. micro digger! Or a Crosley powered by your friend's motor.Mileage,vintage and hopped up,would sail. Great post!
I just got a 2003 S-10. I am thinking about replacing the 2.2 with a 3.0 mercruiser engine with a Weber 3236 and using a 700R4 ******. Ignition would be a beefed up HEI. No computers. Any tips or advice? Seems like it would haul *** and save gas! I hate friggin' computers!
Might be a good idea. The 3.0 is a real torquer even in the marine version I suspect. The industrial version has even more torque and the curve is flat as Kansas. I think you nailed the carb choice as well. Perhaps haul *** would be overstating the case though. It would be quick in a light roadster but in an S10 it's going to be burdened by around 3000lbs. weight. Unless you already have the 3.0 and trans perhaps you should look at the numerous V8 conversions that have been done.
I like bangers. I run a Pinto 2.0 liter (120 cubes) in my 28 Model A station wagon. No bearing adjustments ever and you can drive into any Valvoline for an oil change. Parts are getting to be a bear, but they're still out there.
FYI GM is selling the Vortec 3000 industrial engine which is a low-rev high-torque version of the 3.0L marine engine. It comes with intake/exhaust manifolds, flywheel, and an HEI dizzy. It's rated at 160lb.ft of torque from near off idle to past 3000rpm. Lowest price I've found is $1750 which ain't cheap but it's not a rebuilt engine. It is a brand new manufactured unit and in those terms it's reasonable. And yes standard Chevy bellhousings will bolt up although I'm not sure that the flywheel that comes with it is suitable for automotive use. Although a 5-speed would be nice you'd hardly need it with this rig. Even an old Saginaw 3-speed would be plenty of transmission for it. A TH350 or 700R4 would work fine as well.
Thanks! Your reply and the others are great ideas and the Vortec 3000 is the best idea yet! By my comment of "hauling ***" I meant more along the lines of satisfactory top end on the highway. The torque part of this equasion may still spin the wheels, though. I would also like to have a single driveshaft made of stainless 3" pipe to replace the double cardan driveshaft that I have now. Is this realistic?
A little surfing indicates that a double-cardan driveshaft requires a zero angle on the rear pumpkin relative to the shaft. If you change the front double joint out to a single you'd have to rotate the rear axle to the same, complementary actually, tilt as the transmission. I wouldn't fool with it unless you can't get the double joint to plug into a different trans.
Although this post was made about two years ago, the update on this bucket was made two or three months after this post. The car has been on the road for over two years and it hauls ***! I have a 51 Henry J with a 440 in it and the bucket will run circles around it for an 1/8 mile. What is really nice is the car is super quiet and the cops do not even look at it twice. If we could find a drag strip that would let us run it, I could post some 1/4 mile times, but no roll bar and arm restraints. I will try and post some updated pics this weekend.
Please post some more info, I really this setup..... they use these 151-181cid motors in midgets and I am thinking about doing the same thing you have except use a 32 frame and a model a body.... and have started to collect parts to do just that...with injection and turbo though... just for every one....the belhousing is the same as a small block so any trans that will bolt to a small block will bolt to a 151-181.....also some of the blocks have the same head bolt patern as a small block chevy plus or minus a few bolts....with a few mods you can have a cross flow setup using any small block chevy head.... Back to the really cool car.... I see you used a regular marine head, What do you figure you are running hp wise the way you have it ??? did you do anything special to the internals or just turbo it and how far are you spinning it..RPM wise??? any video or better pictures of the turbo setup??? BTW what does the whole thing weight ????
It's running a small cam, stock head, small block Chevy valves and springs, bored out to around 200ci. Waste gate is set at 8 lbs. I have no idea of the weight, but figure around 1400-1500lbs. It does not have a tach in it, but the guy that built the motor said 7000rpm should be no problem. I do not think we have ever turned it that high, and you really do not need to. I figure that we are turning it around 5000 rpm when we are really getting into it. The rear gear is a 373.
With 8 pounds of boost you wouldn't want a big cam anyway. With a blower on there and as much grunt as you're getting the cam is not nearly as important as it might be on an NA motor. I've heard that the marine version has a cam that isn't particularly suited to automotive use but so what? Take whatever power you get and gear properly to use it. In a car as light as a bucket it's going to be entertaining whatever a dyno would have to say about it. The industrial version has a cam described by GM as low rpm and high torque. Even though it is only rated at 83HP its 163lb.ft of torque is going to make a very light car move out right smartly. You can get cams for the engine from several sources but the only aftermarket manifold that will fit that I'm aware of is from Clifford and will take a 4 barrel carb or a 2 barrel with an adapter. Both 3.0 versions are built like tanks and have very sturdy internals so they'd take hopping up pretty well as REJ has proven. Hanging the blower on there is probably an easier path to big power than all the mods needed for a naturally aspirated engine but it can be done either way. The HP rating on the industrial version is specified at only 3000rpm. Even so it's not going to act like you've hit a switch at revs above that. I figure that it would go to 4K pretty easy and produce about 100-110HP in doing so. Not much it's true but that 160 plus lb.ft. of torque (peaking at a mere 1600rpm) is going to make a light bucket style car flat fly out of the hole and it would probably top out past 90 which is hang-on-for-dear-life territory for a four-wheeled motorcyle. I see no downside other than initial cost and even there the industrial motor sells for several hundred dollars less than the marine. Of course scaring up a usable marine engine for a few hundred bucks would be a solid low buck way to go. Ain't no replacement for displacement and a 180 cube 4 banger is the largest one currently available. It's 20 cubes smaller than a Model A motor but even with an extremely mild cam the industrial Vortec 3000 has well over twice the HP and at least 40lb.ft more torque plus it weighs a bunch less than a flat-banger. http://www.gm.com/automotive/gmpowertrain/engines/specialized/industrial/2006_3000_industrial.pdf
Well this marine engine was really expensive. We found it in a boat that a guy needed moved off of his property. We had to air the tires up on the trailer and pull it six or seven miles. Of course we had it rebuilt before we put the turbo on it. The turbo and manifold are off of a Buick or Pontiac small v8. We had to build the exhaust pipe off the turbo, but we used a block hugger header off of a small block Chevy to go in to the turbo. Estimates by several local engine builders are that it will probably push out 250-300hp under 8lbs of boost.
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