Some of the guys on this forum have requested I start a new thread and answer questions of a technical nature such as best header length and diameter, gear ratio for a certain rpm, etc. Most of the questions can be answered rather easily, however, some answers can become very technical, long winded and confusing. If your concerned with "choke flow" in your intake system or need to know what the combined taper in your intake runners should be, I'll most likely recommend you do a online search and be prepared to do a lot of research. I'm very willing and happy to help....but I don't have the time to teach in-depth subjects. After more than 50 years of playing with internal combustion powered vehicles my best advice is keep it simple, make it light weight, forget the trick of the week, and don't believe the magazine articles 100 percent. There are several things one can do to improve the performance of any vehicle without selling your first-born to finance your project. Keep in mind that it's just as much fun, and cheaper, getting a 14 second car to go a little faster/quicker than it is for a 7 second car. I'll try to answer any and all questions, and plead ignorance when I don't know the answer. Ron
Not an engine question, but front axle/steering. Is there an advantage (besides weight) for the typical early Ford transverse spring front end VS a parallel leaf front end (like a g***er) I ask, because the 26 Chrysler frame I have is set up with a parallel leaf front already. I would change that to something later, like F100 or Econoline. More bounce/ less bounce from one to the other? Either one safer? Does parallel leaf just not fit the cl*** of car? All insight and smart-*** comments welcome!
One problem with a transverse front spring is they require shackles on at least one end of the spring, most use shackles on both ends of the spring. When the spring unloads, or compresses, the shackles have to move since the spring gets shorter or longer. If the car accelerates hard enough to unload the spring, then settles down, one spring shackle may move more than the other one. This means the spring moves sideways in relation to the ch***is. If the car has cross steering, the steering box doesn't move but the front axle does, and the front wheels turn one way or the other. The car will settle down and dart sideways. The cure is to put a panhard rod on the front end. This will keep the front axle/ch***is relationship secure and the wheels won't turn. Jack up the front end of a car with a transverse spring (jack under the ch***is), put a big screwdriver in the shackle while someone holds the steering wheel steady. You can force the spring sideways by moving the shackle. Watch the front wheels turn without moving the steering wheel. Believe me, this can be a very exciting ride, especially if the car picks the front end up off the pavement. Been there-done that. Wild ride. Something to consider; these cars run on a smooth surface and don't really require any front or rear suspension. Much simpler, less weight...car goes quicker. I've run 2 dragsters without any suspension. The quicker one ran high 7's, low 8's @ 160 MPH+ with a 1.07-1.15 second 60 ft time. Drive in the park. Ron
So is parallel leaf better, as far as the shackles shifting, etc of the transverse setup? As I said before, my frame is already setup with 2 leafs front and rear. Just need to see if anyone recommends changing it to transverse. Or run it as is. Very good info you gave out, It has me thinking... Thanks Ray
Ray, Your parallel set-up will be very steady, much more than a transverse leaf set-up. I'd run it like it is. Besides it will ride much better if you decide to take it for a drive across the desert. Ron
Ron thanks for inputs got me thinking I might remove my torsion bars and mount the ft end soild. I could lose some weight, car too. mmm doughtnuts. thanks GREG
Ron.. I drilled and pin'd the spring.. It doesn't move.. But still has the looks..ALL the early race cars had springs. If you start removing them and going ridgid, then you just lost the idea of HA/GR...JMO .......****...
i see this thread becoming a **** slamming contest about aesthetics... and usualy i dont like these but... springs or lack thereof can make the car lose the spirit? i just dont get that one at all... if anything would do that it'd be the cages, or maybe the electric fuel pumps, battery shut offs, 5 point harnesses with arm restraints... i dont see how a spring can deviate from the true nature of the cl***
I think as long as the cars kinda look like "The Bug" we're still within the "spirit". To be ABSOLUTELY CORRECT we would have to all build an exact duplicate of the original Bug. Then it becomes a cookie-cutter car, like NHRA Top Fuel. We also couldn't meet our own rules if the cars were exact duplicates of The Bug. Kind of a Catch 22 situation, isn't it. I'd like to see automatic ******'s and radial rear tires. However, these don't meet the rules, so no reason to even discuss it again. Sorry I mentioned it. Lets build them according to the present rules and encourage innovation of design. Ron
Id like to see the radials used, as they are much easier to find and about 1/2 the price..$104.00ea for bias ply....
Hey Ron, I've seen several pictures of guys running flatheads without radiators or water pumps. I know the waterpumps steal horsepower. I'm nearing the decision point on wether or not to include a radiator. Our original design included one. Any idea how long a Flatty can run without the pumps working? Glenn
I was talking to an old guy that used to run flattys at Bonneville a long time ago. He said they filled the blocks with something solid, and used no coolant at all. He said the engines were fine and did not blow after one p***.
Glenn, I doubt the flat motor would run more than about 2 minutes without getting damn hot. And that wouldn't be at full power. When I was running the front engined dragster with a mild SB Chevy we drained and refilled the block between every round. By the time we did a burnout, staged and made our run the engine was "puking". If you happen to get in eliminations, the time between rounds can be pretty short and you have to decide to run a hot engine or p*** on the round. I'd p***. Having the engine at a certain temperature at the start of the run will help you be more consistant. When I dyno an engine I have to make sure the water temp is constant or the HP & TQ numbers may change. I'd definately use a radiator, or at least a reservoir and circulate the water with water pumps, or an electric pump of some kind. Ron
I agree that filling the block with something like Hardblok would take longer to heat up....it would also take longer to cool off. Something else to consider; without water circulating the combustion chamber would become very hot almost immediately and detonation could rear it's ugly head. I think I'd run a radiator and be safe. Ron
We run water in the block & head and a puke can. We also keep our running to absolute minimums. We fire up and roll'er quickly then shut down and coast in gear with the clutch in, then bump-start at a given speed and roll'er again, shut off and coast, etc. We do this from the pits into the lanes then push by hand (she rolls well) in the lanes. We use the starter to fire and stage and will shut down and wait at the drop of a hat. I've even shut'er off in the pre-stage box to wait out a minor problem. Sometimes being self starting comes in handy. After turning off the strip we use the same procedure on the return road. Swap in fresh water and we're ready to go again. The only time we've had a problem with it was at Dragfest where we took the old fire-up road all the way back to parade past the stands and then around and back to the pits. The spectators loved that but it did make for more heat build-up. Team Twir'lin pulls theirs around with a quad so doesn't have a problem. Even then we managed OK and only boiled over twice, due mostly to being in a line-up on the return trip and not able to coast for awhile. Eventually we went back to the starter for that part of it as well.
We tried it both ways when we run our flathead car. Running a radiator was alot easier and alot better on the engine. More weight but you can get small radiators that weigh hardly anything and hold just enough water to keep it cool. Electric water pump is a must,pumps alot of water and weigh,s probably half or more than stock pumps do.
I'm building the flathead six in mine with water in the engine, no water pump, an overflow can only. Hey, if it doesn't work, I'll add the other junk later.
Not very hi-tech, but Sears use to sell a small 12 volt water pump that took 5/8" inlet and outlet rubber hoses. The thing was about the size of your fist and pumped a lot of water. I think it was used on boats as a bilge pump. Cheap too. Ron
i can guarantee one thing for sure... cowboy bob had coolant getting into the right bank on his flat motor at kaukauna about a month ago or so, and wanted to keep racin' ... so out came the water and he ran it dry for at least two more runs down the 1320' had no ill effect from what we could see.
Dry flathead blocks do save some weight, but unless you are running alcohol, they tend to crack eventually. They also take a long, long time to cool. I'd be inclined to run a wet block with an electric water pump even if you didn't run a radiator just to keep the hot spots moving around.
budget elec-trick water pump - use factory water pump, but instead of driving of crank (robbing what little hp there is), adapt a small pulley to a heater motor mounted of side of block. It doesn't have to be spinning water all that hard, it's just needs to be enough to keep the water circulating. Obviously this is all weight, so a compact little water pump is worth the investment. Cheers, Drewfus
I'm going to use my old Dedenbear waterpump. It worked real good on another car.. So it should be fine for a HA/GR....
We dynoed our salt flathead with and without the pumps. The difference was 3 hp. Not really worth the extra maintance. I have run my ha/gr gmc dry every since we built it , no real problems , just fire it and run, shut it off. Hasnt seemed to hurt it yet, we are thinking about adding a radiator with coolant though.. Ron, hows your gmc run ? Got any times and pictures etc??
Bubba, How much HP & TQ did your flat motor make, and at what RPM's? Did you ever dyno your GMC? The GMC is still going together. It seems like every part has to be custom made and takes months to get. I think I finally have all the parts except for pushrods and their on order. By the way the JE pistons are 400 grams lighter than stock, the piston pins are 84 grams lighter and the rods are about 100 grams lighter. All together I saved over 1 1/4 pounds on each piston/pin/rod ***embly. I hope that helps keep the crank happy. Ron
OK....New flathead question.... I have a 53 Merc flathead. Near me is a '48 Flathead out of a driver with about 80k miles on it. He's doing a rebuild and replaceing it with stroked flathead. 1. Is this engine a direct swap for the Merc? 2. Is $425 a decent price for it? Things break when racing. I have a backup ******. This would be a backup motor. You guys are a big help! Thanks again!
If you are using a short Merc Bell Housing on the 1953 Motor, it will bolt up without having to use the Merc Housing, as this is part of earlier engine. If it has 80K and is not cracked (runs) $450 is not out of line at all. 2B
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