hello, for those of you who have made your own louver dies, what material did you make the louver dies out of? hardness? ect. thanks
Not exactly my specialty, but I'd start look at air hardening tool steels. Maybe we've got a tool and die man in the HAMB.....slide
Try this: Low, Low Buck Louver Press here on the HAMB: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5581
thanks for the info. would someone be willing to send me a profile of their 3 inch louver? just use a piece of poster board. i would be willing to pay for shipping. thanks
I used S-7 for mine just because I had a lot of it lying around. Most any tool steel properly hardened should work.
The guy who punched my louvers made his own out of 4140 and it's held up for years. In 30 years, he said he's only replaces it once and he's busy guy. I'll get some real close-up pix tonight of my louvered trunk lid if you want. Vance
If you can get a chunk cheap, my first choice would be either M-2 or D-2. Otherwise, A-2, S-7 or O-1 would be good choices. They will probably be a little cheaper, definetly easier to machine, but may not hold up quite as well as the M-2 or D-2.
I made one years ago then sold it and i just used oil hard tool steel and it was fine.. But i wasnt doing production either.I hardened it to 56/58 rockwell and it was fine for me Dave
this is actually the direction i want to go. joe hartson (a hamber) put this one together. he did a great job too. just needed some info on material for louver die. http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5955&highlight=cub+cadet may have to be a member of metalmeet.com for this to work
Make sure you have the capabilities to heat treat the type of tool steel you choose. This is why an oil hardend tool steel would be the easiest. It can be done with a torch, you can even do the drawback with a torch.
Brady, The male die on mine is nothing but hot roll shaped to the profile that I want. The cutting edge of the female die is a piece of and old shear blade, some tool steel, and the back of the female die is aluminum. I have not had a problem with this arrangement even punching 16 gage. Have made dies in many different sizes and shapes. Tool steel would probably last much longer but I am not in the business of punching louvers and haven't had a problem yet. The shape, profile of the louver, is what you want it to look like. I make most of mine with the rounded top, old school, and not like the ones made today that are flat on top. Joe Hartson
Has anyone used mild steel to form the dies? My thinking is that if you form the male die undersized, then you build up the cutting edge with a hard facing impact rod such as Stoody 11172500. You could then grind it back to the desired profile and it should stay sharp for a long time. If the edge chipped, it should be a simple repair.
Not those dies, but for other dies, yes. And while your plan is good in theory, going with a higher carbon material does also allow for simple tempering if you choose, or a harder material in general to begin with. Say a 4130 or a 4140. Equates to less work. That said and more worth saying, there is a lot of over thinking going on here. Take the material, even a 1030 mild steel can be enhanced with surface hardening to hold up well in home service. Being realistic, there is a big difference between 100 punches and 1,000 punches. How many will a guy really do? Oxy-acetylene, red hot, turn off the o2 and soot it up with carbon, do that a few time so it soaks in then quench in oil. You will be surprised at how hard the surface will get, and how well it will hold up. Also as you mentioned, mild steel is easily repaired.
@NoelC, thanks for the reply and the information. Wasn't trying to overthink it, just trying to work with what I have on hand. I've got impact hard facing rod, ***orted axe heads, heavy plate and so on.
The hardfacing rod you called out should work okay. As welded hardness is Rc 52-58 and if it is subsequently water quenched from 1700*F it will give you Rc 56-60. 52 is somewhat low for a cutting edge, but most stuff like this tends to fall toward the middle of the specified range and Rc 56 or so should work fine. If it wears too quick you can always heat it up and water quench it to increase the hardness. Proper clearance between the punch and die at the shear edge is real important both for wear and for getting a good cut edge. For 16ga and lighter mild steel you'd want .006" clearance.
@metlmunchr , thanks for that info. I was curious about clearance. Would a light lubricant on the dies help?
That powder in the pics is just carbon powder, probably with something to help it stay stuck to the surface. It diffuses carbon into the surface, making it harder. Technical term is carburizing. Most commercial carburizing is done using a carbon rich gas environment in a furnace, but you can also surround the surface with carbon powder. It takes time and temp (higher is faster) to allow the carbon to diffuse into the steel surface. Really something that needs to be done in a controlled furnace, not a torch in the air. Note that the resulting higher carbon surface depth is not much, so too much final grinding or shaping to size will go through the layer. As an aside, nitriding is a similar surface hardening process where nitrogen is diffused into the surface. Except done at lower temps like 900-1000F, and the resulting surface depth is only 0.002-0.003 inch.
As I was reading the posts, I was thinking to myself, clearance is just as important as material. I use H-13 and a S-7 a lot and D-2, if you build in proper clearances and keep your tool well maintained, any of these materials once hardened should do you well.
What he said - air hardening. Try A-2, it's easy to work with pre-harden. Make sure to thoroughly encomp*** it in foil (to prevent carburization and include some steel wool and paper in the bag.
I used this decades ago and it is still available. Real old timers used to case-harden steel using carbon-rich items like ground up horse hooves. https://www.travers.com/product/kasenit-hardening-compound-81-003-001
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