Banjo ratios - what are my options?

I was just about to start reassembling my '48 rear end and thought while it's apart I may as well know what ratio I have. It's a 4.11.

I did some calculations and with the 7.00 x 16s I intend running, I'll be doing 2800RPM @ 60 mph. Not exactly what I wanted.

I'm running a 401 nailhead and against all better judgement I have persisted with the banjo throughout my build for its style.

I thought I might invest in a QC and upgrade the axles later on.

Do I bight the bullet now and spend big bucks on the QC and Hotrodworks axle conversion? I don't really have the $$

Do I just build it as is for now so I can get on the road?

Do I invest in a new crown and pinion in a higher ratio? What is available and for what kind of money?

I'm in a bit of a hole right now. Don't know which way to go.

Suggestions please.

JUST DON'T TELL ME TO "JUST SLAP A 9" IN IT". If I go that way i might just put a SBC and TH350 in it too.

Thanks, Pete

 

If my memory serves me correctly, (sometimes questionable ) there were 4 ratios 4.33 or 4.44, 4.11, 3.78, and 3.55. 4.11 and 3.78 being the most common. The 46 PU rear in my A has 3.78. If the rear still has the original gear set, the ratio is stamped on the bottom of the housing. It is stamped on the bottom center web where the torque tube bolts on. It is stamped like 9-37 for 4.11 or 9-34 for 3.78.

 

Thanks for that info. At least that helps me find another centre with a better ratio. The 3.55 would be the best and probably hardest to find I suppose.

Anything new available?

Pete

 

If you want to go with a really good high speed *cruising gear* look at Speedway's array......they offer a 3.25 ratio.........wish I had done that instead of the 3.54 I chose........ http://www.speedwaymotors.com/p/3769,702_GETZ-High-Speed-Gear-Sets-for-1935-48-Ford-and-Mercury.html

Remember.....these are CNC machined *Motive Gearsets* made in Italy.......very high quality, although I did have to have some machining done to make mine work......they ARE NOT GETZ Gears as advertised.........ask Speedway Tech guys.......they should tell you what I have learned from experience........

You will be happy with quality and performance though.......good luck...

Brucie

 

Thanks Cuz

A 3.25 would be really good behind the nailhead. What machining was required?

 

I agree, you need a 3.55 or so for those tires - unless you use a transmission with O/D high gear, which are available in both stick and auto, or you use a Gear Vendors or similar product ($$). There are Laycock-style OD boxes that can be grafted/adapted to your output shaft fairly cheap but (AFAIK) not as strong as the GV, so no wheelies!
Downside to GV: shorten driveshaft, expensive.
Downside to all O/D: driveshaft speed isn't reduced, so really high speed cruising is a bit scary.
If you do use a 3.55, note the other posts on 1st gear ratio: don't use a 2.20.

 

I have 3:25's in my '40 (got 'em through Speedway, be prepared to wait for them - they always seem to be on back order). It has a 350 SBC/39 top loader. 8.20 x 15 rear tires (about 30" tall I believe) It is great on the highway - no tach yet so I don't know what the RPMs are - but 70-75 mph is no problem.

 

RPM = (MPH × axle ratio) ÷ (.002975 × tire OD)
75 × 3.25 = 243.75
.002975 × 30 = .08925
243.75 ÷ .08925 = 2,731 RPM

 

Had to have the pinion shaft turned down about .003 so the bearing would fit properly on the banjo end..........also had to have the oil groove cupped out....there was none...

Minor stuf, but it cost me $300 for the gears and $160 for the machining and new bearings.........not horrible, but it shouldn't have been necessary.....

CB

 

The 820 x15s are roughly the same dia as the 700 x 16s. By my calculations that makes about 2200 RPM @ 60mph. That's seems about perfect.

Brucie, That seems ridiculous that you would need to do that kind of machining on new replacement parts.

Thanks for the heads up though

 

Thanks Panic.

Without knowing the price of an OD, my guess is that there would be cheaper ways to get what I need. If I'm gonna spend real money, I'll buy a quickchange (for the ratios and the looks)

Pete

 

you never said if it was a car or pickup banjo. While gears are available for the car rears, I haven't found anyone who sells a hgher gear for the pickup rearend. Maybe run a T-5 in it?

 

It's a car rear. I'm a bit far down the track to change transmissions now. And as I said above there would be cheaper ways to achieve my goal.

It looks like the 3.25 gears from Speedway will be my best bet.

I think in the interest of keeping the momentum going and getting this thing on the road this coming summer, I'll go ahead with the 4.11s, drive at 50 mph to keep the revs down and change the gears down the track.

Probably not a bad idea to keep the speed down for the first little while anyway to see how it all beds in.

Thanks for all the ideas. Feel free to add more if you have them.

Pete

 

That's the problem...they are NOT "direct replacement" gears as Speedway says........they are a different # of pinion and ring teeth than the stock 11/39 Ford 3.54's had......these are actually 9/32 which acrually yields a 3.55 rear ratio..........interesting that after all my ragging on their tech guys that a reputable firm like Speedway would keep on advertising them as *GETZ* gears, direct replacement and even 3.54 when they are actually 3.55 (nit picking on that last part, I know)

And, as I said before the pinion shaft had to be turned down on a lathe and the oil indent under the double pinion race had to be created.....there was none.......

I don't want to beat a dead horse.......I am very pleased with the perfomance and quality of the gearset, but they should have just dropped right in ..........final word on the subject.....I promise....

CB

 

Great thread. Congrats on your persistance to run the banjo. I recently bought a 3/54 speedway set and apparently the machine work is done before you purchase the parts now. I will however take a look and see if indeed the oil groove is present on the pinion shaft. I felt that doing the gear swap now while I'm building the car would save a mess and downtime later and make me happier with the gearing when I do get the car on the road. I purchased a complete bearing, seal and shim set from hot rod works and feel it was a good price for what I got, plus they seem to have great service...

 

Seems like Columbia solved this one years ago.

 

This is why I asked the questions when I did. I was at the point of starting to reassemble the rear end. (only had it apart for inspection and to set the preload etc). It was only then that I realised that I had 4.11s. Call me stupid.

Like you, I thought now is the time to change the ratio. But with the likelihood of delays in supply, shipping time and of course the cost, I decided to just button it up with the 4.11s in place. I'll deal with it later. I need to keep the project moving.

I spent the day putting the old jigger back together. I had a print out of a HAMB thread to help me get all the preload and backlash right. It was straightforward with the right info, but still time consuming.

If I do buy the Speedway set down the track I will certainly be asking the questions about the oil groove and pinion machining before I pay up.

Pete

 

It's a Getz gear because Getz is gone and Speedway owns the name!

 

Are you guys installing these on your own? Or taking them to a shop to install them? I am currently trying to undertake a similar project on my banjo rear-end. Only difference is that I am upping to a 6.67 gear set for racing. Can someone help me with this task?

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=284015&highlight=ring+pinion

Thank you so much. OP, sorry to hijack your thread!

 

OK.......then why is the box printed all over with the name *Motive Gears*???

They are NOT GETZ gears, Bruce.........I don't care who owns the name.....these gears are made in Italy and are Motive Gears......period!

Read these threads:
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43173&highlight=speedway+gears

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51375

Why doesn't Speedway have the boxes printed with *GETZ Gears* instead of Motive Gears.........???

Respectfully,

CB

 

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/p/376...for-1935-48-Ford-and-Mercury.html?itemNo=getz

Website says "Getz". FWIW...

 

Yeah, and there has never been any incorrect information listed on a website. (Didja pick up on the sarcasm cuz I'm layin it on pretty heavy?) LOL

I would listen to Brucie since he has ACTUALLY installed them and knew enough about what was going on to have the parts machined to fit correctly.

 

Getz is a label only now, as far as I know. Are the gears still Italian made, just out of curiosity? Motive seems to be American, is it an intermediate distributor or what? I'm glad production is moving to real OEM type sources...aftermarket doesn't seem able to ride QC herd on the Chinese very well.
Oh, you gotta watch local sources too...scored some very nice original 3.54's on the Hamb classifies a couple of months back. I think $40...!! He never said 3.54, but posted clear pics and was happy to post toothage.
Nobody is likely to approach the easy setup of original Ford gears!
I hope Speedway is looking into getting a real manufacturer onto Ford transmission parts next.

 

The ratios I recall from back in the '50s were 4.44, 4.11, 3.78, 3.54, and 3.27. The 3.27 gearset was pretty useless on the street with anything less than a really fierce flattie, and were generally used by guys running the lakes. That ratio may have been an aftermarket (Getz?) item even back then.

 

Getz did supply the 3.27. There was also a 4.55 Ford and an odd 3.60 or so used only on one year of 6-cylinder...
I think the 3.27 was highest I've ever seen for a banjo. Getz listed at least twice as many gears as Ford I think and went into the 6's for 1/4 mile circle tracks. They also made a limited slip...don't know anything about that beyond catalog number for the kit with special axles, discontinued early 1960's, and for a while supplied gears for all generations of the banjo.

 

Still says *Made In Italy* on the box mine came in.............no mention of GETZ on the box, nor on any other that I have seen....it does say they are the Official provider of gears to the ARCA racing series.........some guys have made reference to some being manufactured in India or Spain??

Once again, I will say that they are very high quality CNC machinings .....

CB

 

Well, I have a 6.17 "Getz" gear that I got from Speedway. It is still in the box. I don't think the box has any labels on it. I'll go back and look it over real good and give you guys an update. I think Bruce is right...its only a name. It may "say" Getz, but it is prolly not made by them. Oh well...I certainly don't pretend to know anything about it. All I can provide is info about the gear I bought. (BTW...it is a 6.17...and not a 6.67 as I posted earlier)

 

I think a 6.17 Getz is almost certainly an old part from when Getz was the main source of aftermarket gears! Probably says "Getz" and "USA" on the gears themselves. No one would reproduce that now as its only application is ancient racers like yours. Getz used to occupy pages and pages in the hotrod catalogs, and seemed to fill every niche in the gear world.

 

Good info, Bruce! BTW...i'm still trying to figure out how to install my new gear... ;-)