Picked up a 59L block to rebuild & am going to go out to the swaps & look for a dual carb intake. So I see in the catalogs that the early intakes are different then the '49 - '53 intakes. Mine should be a 42' to 46'(?) so it should use the early intakes. My question: How can you tell them apart? What distinguishes them from each other? I know someone here can tell me how to do it. Thanks, TatMatt
You want to use an early intake. the late 49 up have an oil filler tube on the front. now if you want to just run a 4 barrel, then you have to use a late intake. they all interchange somewhat. check out egay to see the different styles.
Quickest way is to look at the front driver side of the intake up near the generator mount - on the 49-up intakes there will be two 1.5" (ish) holes for the breather/oil fill & road-draft tubes. The early intakes will not have this. However you can use a late intake on an early engine & vice-verse. Can't recall of the top of my head, but you may have to use specific fuel pump stand depending which way you're going...
So you say I can run a 49-53 intake on my older motor? So I guess the bolts line up, do I use the oil/draft tubes like on a newer motor or do I plug them up? Getting a new fuel pump stand won't be hard. I seem to see more later intakes for sale. Sorry for the dumb questions, flattys are new to me. Thanks, TatMatt
What kind of oil pan are you running? (what year - w/ or w/o breather) You going to run a mechanical or electric fuel pump?
Mornin' Ernie. And all the rest reading this thread. A quick history on Ford intake manifolds. 32 - 48 Oil breather (cap) at the back of the engine was mounted above the fuel pump.(combination mount) Oil was added at the rear through the breather cap. To allow fumes to escape from the engine the oil pan has a vent in the right front corner. From 49 to 54 (not a mistake, Canada and Austrailia continued flathead production into 1954) The oil filler and road draft tube (Ernie explains above) move to the front of the engine, left side. Oil pan no longer has vent at right front corner. No filler/breather cap above the fuel pump. (different fuel pump tower) On the later (49 up) manifolds the hole at the very front of the engine has a "road draft" tube that snakes down the front of the engine and underneath. The second hole is used to put oil in and has a "breather" cap. The breather cap allows air to enter the engine, sweep away fumes, (well it's supposed to) and exit through the road draft tube. (air passing by the road draft tube underneath is supposed to draw the fumes out) Combinations: Early intake manifold on late engine. (no holes at left front) Needs to keep oil filler/breather above fuel pump. Needs either an early oil pan or some means of venting into the crankcase. Late intake manifold on early engine. Switch to NON vented fuel pump tower. (no oil filler/breather cap) If using early oil pan, air intake at right front corner needs to be blocked off. There is a tube under the road draft tube inside the engine that will need to be inserted so the draft tube is sucking fumes from the crankcase. Both early and late manifolds WILL bolt on ANY year of flathead.
[ QUOTE ] Excellent description, Dave...all the answers he needs. [/ QUOTE ] Gee .. thanks Ernie! I see we have been on a number of threads the last couple of days answering questions on the 'ole "flattie!" Hummm .. let's see; if we charged .02 cents a word for the information we have been dispensing, you and I might just be able to buy a box of ale!!
Could you guys tell us a little about the benefit/harm of heat risers on street engines? Do we need one, do we not want one. I've seen some intakes for sale (for instance on speedway's sight they sell TWO Thickstun 2x2 manifolds, one is for 32-48 and one is for 49-53, one has the heat riser, and one doesn't the later model manifold is twice as expensive...Why?) Matt Thanks for the info
[ QUOTE ] Could you guys tell us a little about the benefit/harm of heat risers on street engines? Do we need one, do we not want one. [/ QUOTE ] Street engines like heat risers. They don't do any harm at all. It's a passage that runs from the center exhaust port on one side of the engine to the exhaust port on the other side under the carb plennum. The heat from the exhaust speeds up the vaporization of the air/fuel mixture at startup. This keeps the engine from stumbling (like it's too rich) when not completly warmed up. Manifolds that are used exclusivley for drag racing often don't have heat risers. (also less expensive because the heat riser passage is eliminated making the casting easier) [ QUOTE ] I've seen some intakes for sale (for instance on speedway's sight they sell TWO Thickstun 2x2 manifolds, one is for 32-48 and one is for 49-53, one has the heat riser, and one doesn't the later model manifold is twice as expensive...Why?) [/ QUOTE ] It's probably because one manifold is meant for racing, (without the heat riser) and the other is for street use. Another cost factor could be that one manifold could have individual runners to the intake ports, and the other could be a common plenium. (an open area above all the intake ports, and cheaper to manufacture) Another expense, later ('49 up) manifolds are more difficult to cast and machine (because of the road draft and filler holes) than early intake manifolds. (pre '49)
Thanks Dig Dav...so basically you can use the manifold without the heat riser? Or would you recommend getting it? I have a tendancy to get in and drive, not letting things get warm...Not sure if this matters. Also, I think the looks of the manifold without the fill tube is cleaner.
A flathead warms up quicky by design, so eather one will work.My buddy teels me they used to plug the heat risers with pennies, this helped with exhaust note. As far as running a late manifold on your early engine, no problem. You can buy plugs (chrome) and/or you can run the filler tube. Personnaly I would run an early manifold and not farkle with the holes to plug. Another issue that may effect your decision is the generator location. If you are going to run a centerline generator the late manifold might not work (some do like Eddie Meyer's). I have a 59A and a late regular Edelbrock did not have enough room for my generator. I'm currently running an early style Offy regular, it was cheap and it works great.
Thanks Dave, & everyone else. Now I'll feel a little more comfortable when & have to pluck down a bunch of cash for a dual intake. They are mighty pricey. I saw a Fenton at the Long Beach swap for $200 & a Thickston for $500. TatMatt
I got a 53 Merc motor, and am looking at the early Thickstun manifold that utilizes the stock gennie mount. I have a late model gennie mount though, I'd probably have to get the early style mount? Not sure If I bought the right water-pumps to use with the early gennie mount or does it matter? I already have the motor set up. Wow, there sure is a lot of shit to figure out. Tat, get yourself a speedway catalogue, I think the early 2x2 thickstun is $300 or so, they also have eddie meyer, offie, and edelbrock.
[ QUOTE ] (for instance on speedway's sight they sell TWO Thickstun 2x2 manifolds, one is for 32-48 and one is for 49-53, one has the heat riser, and one doesn't the later model manifold is twice as expensive...Why?) [/ QUOTE ] I think it's an Eddie Meyer & not a Thickston - the late EM intake has a whole extra casting that joins the two intake risers that is heated. All the extra casting & machining is what makes this particular comparison apples & oranges. Typical heat risers are just small passages & not elaborate castings... You can run w/ or w/o them - your car may take slightly longer to warm up, but as Dave mentions, they get pretty warm fairly quickly by design.
Mounting differences were a matter of cost cutting as Ford hired lots of GM bean counters in '48 or so...the second Ford died. The '49 up uses fewer bolts, as do many hot rod manifolds with thick runner areas, but all that remain are in same location as early bolts. A distinct advantage of early block/early manifold is that the earlies had two dowel pins locating the manifold, while the late hardware had only bolts with no real exact locaters. The dowels allow precise placement of the manifold/block port register so that ports and gasket can be perfectly matched.
All this information has me coming up with more and more questions. Bruce, can you not gasket match using a couple of bolts? matt
Bolts, unless one or two go through reamed holes for positive piloting on the shank, do not locate very precisely, and there will be some slop. It is common practice to add some positive locating on parts that are inadequately located for hot rodding, and in this case it would make sense to drill through the manifold flange into the block in a couple of places for a small pin before doing final matching. You'll have to fiddle with new gaskets a bit to get them holed for your custom doweling. When you have a positive location system, you can match your gasket to one side and then use it to transfer dimensions to the other side exactly. If you have slop in the system, you need to make a side of the equation a bit oversize so it can't overlap in the direction that would impede flow.
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