Hey Painters, I Got Orange Peel Trouble?!?

my painter buddy shot a part for me with my semi-gloss industrial/fleet paint (which normally turns out smooth) but I think he didn't have much experience with this product 'cause now I have orange peel! Won't be making that mistake again!! I don't want to sand the whole thing down and start over, so...

Question: is there a way to knock down the orange peel to get a smooth finish, and bring it back to it's suede sheen without getting too glossy? I've used paper that's fine enough,1000, 1500 and 2000, to remove the scratches from the orange peel knock down, and then buff lightly with swirl remover, and it comes out too shiny! Is there a magic formula/process I'm overlooking here?

Thanks

 

I think if you try to sand it with the 1000 and up you are really just polishing it to a shine. Maybe after you get the orange peel out you can use steel wool to knock down the shine a little....but it will have fine scratches then.

 

cut out the "and then buff lightly with swirl remover" part.

 

but then I end up with too many scratches/swirls, and it's not much less shiny. If I stop at 1000 or 1500, it's too scratchy.

 

Thats the problem with satin....it really isn't very forgiving. Best bet is sand and reshoot.

 

I don't have a paint booth, just a shed, so I end up with dust particles (along with the orange peel) and **** like that in the finish. There must be a way to sand it smooth and keep it flat without scratches?!?

 

good advice, but I already took those precautions. I found out that even with a booth it is next to impossible to get a flawless finish due to orange peel
and dust. No big deal usually because you wet sand and buff to glossy perfection (or close). But now I need a technique that will work for flat or suede that I could repeat over and over.

 

I just shot the hot rod flatz and it came out nice. No orange peel or any other problems. Are you doing every thing correctly right temp reducer/ air psi?

 

my painter is experienced at following manufacturer instructions, but even then, in order to remove dust and bugs I need to wet sand to smooth it down.

 

That, but no matter how hard you try to get rid of me, I just keep showing up, for I am the one and only Dust-e-one

 

Your killing me. No booth, dusty garage, satin industrial paint and you want it perfect. At the very least shoot it in a booth, that's your best chance of getting good flow with the correct reducer in a area that will attract the least amount of dust giving you what you want.

 

I'm not expecting it to come out perfect, since the temperature and humidity can't be controlled, but I would like to get it (close to) perfect afterwards like I can with glossy paint.

 

Looks like thats what you have (close to).

 

not really. It's got so much orange peel, it's far from being acceptable. I've seen enough amateur suede jobs that came out really nice (no dust or orange peel, shot in home garage or car port) to know it's attainable. I just need to figure out how!

 

I'm no expert, but I thought for some paints you could get a flattener that you can spray on.

 

You're asking if there is a method to fix it without spraying another coat. The answer is no.

 

I second. Motion p***ed.

 

We use fleet paint (single stage)at work to paint the subway cars for the city. We use Sherwinn Williams Fleet paint in a booth and still get trash at times in it. Several things could be getting in your way..for instance : how well is the surface prepared and with what grit of paper are you sanding with ? Air pressure when sprayed ? Also are you using the correct hardner ? If the paint is sitting there and taking forever to dry, you are going to increase your risk of getting trash in the paint. You will either need a faster hardner or use some accelarator mised in to help kick it off. I do know that Sherwinn Williams offers a clear coat system that has the garage painter (dusty conditions) that drys quick. You can even mix to several variations of suede.... Just my 2 pennies worth...

 

This is fleet paint as well, single stage polyurethane Dupont Imron, and I'm using the recommended accelerator and hardener. From what I've learned also, if the paint dries TOO quick it doesn't have time to 'settle', causing orange peel. The surface is completely degreased and sanded with 800grit, with no scratches coming through. It's been prepped well. The pressure at the gun ended up being about 30psi.

 

Semi-gloss or flat paints really shouldn't be sanded and buffed as that will defeat the look, They should be sprayed as nice as possible and left alone but if you must sand it then go to 3000grit wet as it will leave a dull shine but not show any of the sanding scratches.

 

I've gone up to 2000 so far and I'm able to see my reflection clearly in it. Not the effect I'm going for at all.

 

I know its a PITA but sometimes you just gotta **** it up and do it over. I did my cab 3 times before I was satisfied with it. Of co**** I'm not a pro and sometimes get a little **** about stuff.

 

Just re-shoot the **** and be done with it. Add a tad extra solvent to flow it some but not too much. Sand it with 1000 before the re-shoot and spray only 1 nice even coat, too heavy it'll hit the floor. If this isn't the answer you're looking for then there is no answer.

 

you say it's a single stage yet you are adding hardners and accelerators....bad move[jmho]
single stage paints should just take reducer and that's it.anything else will cause the paint to clabber and orange peel bad...sand the **** off and start over.all you are doing now is polishing a turd....35 years of painting under my belt but i could be wrong.....not!!!

 

A low gloss or satin finish is a finish that is not gl*** smooth. That may sound silly, but the truth is that there is an inert powder or pigment in the finish that is designed to essentially stick up out of the surface to give you the low gloss look.

The more inert or pigment mixed into the paint, the lower the gloss. The stuff sticks up and interrupts the reflection of light causing the surface to look lower gloss (less reflectance).

On a microscopic basis, comparing a high gloss finish to a low gloss sheen... it looks like the difference between the surface of a still pond and the surface of your lawn. Thus the reason that if you wax a low gloss surface, it is almost impossible to get all of the wax off. It is literally in the crevices.

If you are sanding, buffing, rubbing or doing anything else to the surface, you are destroying the inert that is sticking up that gives you the low gloss finish. You will not restore this with any more rubbing or magical chemicals. You can buff it and leave it, but it will still have swirl marks from buffing until you use finer and finer compounds. Eventually you will have the surface smooth and it will look like glossy paint.

It may not stay glossy for long because there is very little resin left there which gives it protection. Mostly you now have inert pigment that has been cut and exposed and will eventually die back down to a lower gloss. The reason a lower gloss paint still holds up fairly well is because there is a very thin skin of resin over the inert sticking up. Of course it still does not hold up as well as a full gloss coating that has much more resin content (or a basecoat/clearcoat where the clear is essentially all resin).

All that being said, find someone that knows how to paint properly and ask them to re-shoot the part. Or... experiment on something less important until you get the knack of spraying. You are likely using too fast a thinner, too warm of temperatures, too little thinner, too little paint or too high or low of gun pressure (or some crazy combination of all of the above). Paint on a trash can or something until you can get a nice wet look without sagging and then go for it.

 

not all single stage paints take reducer only . imron for one takes a hardner . AND it takes a good while for it to dry . so i kinda understand the accelerator .

BUT ... but you seem to be asking too much from this paint job . you do have to re shoot it PERIOD ... no way to polish this out with out getting shiney .also if this is a metallic . you should not sand a single stage metallic. it will ruin it.. everyone thinks a satin/flat job is easier . it is every bit as involved as a shiny job . i say do it again. get a better area to paint in .

 

A couple more quick thoughts... Yes I agree with it being a bad idea to buff single stage metallic. Did it one time. Looked great for awhile. Then the freshly cut and exposed aluminum started to corrode and the whole finish went near flat. Never could bring it back and learned a valuable lesson. You can get away with buffing solid colors because there is enough pure resin mixed in with the solid pigmentation.

Regarding your dirt situation. It is easy enough to produce a place to paint. Buy some cheap 10 foot by 20 foot sheets of plastic and duct tape it up where you need to. Even tape some to the floor and ceiling if necessary to create a clean room. It will cost you less than $20 to make a place to paint. For smaller parts, you can do the same to something like a refrigerator box to make a clean mini booth.

I did this to paint my firewall using single stage in a filthy dirty warehouse. It came out pretty good and required no buffing.

Practice first. Get things dialed in. Then make yourself a clean place to paint.

 

One other thing you can try is to make sure the ground is wet and drop a chain from the frame to kill any "static cling". Also PPG used to have a product called 'anti stat' I believe ti wa. Mixed in enamel thinner and sprayed on first to kill the static problem. Both systems have worked for me several times. Also at times orange peel can be the result of to rapid a film build - to much paint in one coat with each subsequent coat jsut adding to the problem. For what it's worth.

 

You have to re-paint. No way to color sand and polish to a satin finish.

 

wow! Thanks for all the info guys! I will follow your advice: sand and reshoot. I didn't want to do it if there was some magic cure, but since there isn't, I'll do it right! I appreciate you taking the time to help a rookie!