Is the n.s.r.a. doomed or do they just need to retrench and rethink some things?

My Dad is on the right..Not sure who was on the left. We thought this would make a great photo. Obviously he doesn't think too highly of GG's

 

1: How would we know if a NSRA official has or hasn't posted?

2: Why would a person drive a trike a long distance to a NSRA event knowing that his vehicle doesn't fit the pre '49 requirement?

3:Why would the NSRA owe this person an apology?

 

I guess because it was Ed Roth. I don't think they should let him in just because he was Ed Roth, especially since he was clearly not in a "street rod", but I do think they should have let him in with a vender p*** or something! Big Daddy, always the rebel!
As far as NSRA/GG goes, I think they would have a huge increase in attendance if they would do away with the membership ********. Why pay to be a member if you're only going to one show a year? I can do with out the magazine, and how many times would you have gone to one of these shows last minute if it weren't for the $70.00 fee (last minute, non member) you would have to pay?!

 

Anything that stays the same will die.

What I have noticed at the Richmond event is that most of the street rod owners are 60+ years old. As these guys get older they don't travel as much. The hot rod guys are generally younger, but they also have families and can't support the events like the older retired guys. The youngest group own the 1949 and newer vehicals. They can't afford the price of a street rod, so they buy "newer" cars.

Opening up the post '49 cars to the events will help get numbers up, but you got to make these guys feel a part of the show. One of the door prizes was a set of '32 rails. I own a '57 Chevy, what do I do with '32 rails? Yes, I could sell them. But the point of winning is takeing home something you can use, not something you don't need.

I have never been to a NSRA show other than Richmond, so I only see one set of problems. What can be done to fix it? I'm sure there are many things you could try. Bottom line is that the first year was the best and attendance has gone down since. The problem should have already been addressed or some changes made, I haven't seen that.

 

I have always enjoyed going. My city is fortunate enough to have a show for a number of years. I don't feel the city does as much as they can for the show but that's another story. Everything is down everywhere because of high fuel cost.

 

The problems
1= costs
2= not enough shade, at most events 3= lawn chairs ,saved parking
4= awards too late in the day
5= age of participants
6= no group discounts for lodging
7= as a rule no special areas for clubs
8= publications leave a lot to be desired
9= participants taken for granted .when was the last time you were
asked for your opinion .
10= nsra, good guys,others, we are the show, wake up.
These are just a few but it would go a long way to address these.

 

Not trying to pick on Patrick or direct this post at him, but think the comment is a good illustration of the disconnect at the root of it all.

Anymore, those aren't different guys.

Rodders, of all ages, tend to stick to "pre-**" rules. And the cutoff date for ** is usually determined by what's attainable in their 20s & 30s. If you were 30 in 1964, your prolly not into muscle but are into pre 64. If you were 30 in 1980 or later, you're prolly into muscle, plus pre 64. If you were 30 in 1990 or 2000, you're probably into 80s techno muscle, older muscle, plus pre-64, maybe even some lowrider truck thrown in.

You wanna attract the 20-something rodder crowd, you gotta realize that to them, anything with a carburetor is an OLD CAR. They generally don't have the walls between hot rod and kustom and muscle. If ya don't believe me, look at the cars they're building and how touches of each genre are incorporated.

The NSRA & GG of the future won't have walls, they'll welcome all old cars. Because the cars will be harder to cl***ify.

If rolling 25 or rolling 30 cutoff doesn't seem old, think back to the cars 25-30 years old when you were in HS. That was some old, generally undriveable without m***ive repair, ****.

 

Wow, lots of good points in this thread. So let me ask this

1- is $45.00 to $50.00 for entry fee for a three day show to much??? What if this was to include the car, the driver and one p***anger???

2- is the fact that there is little to no shade a real "deal" killer?? If you know a head of time you can bring an easy up??

3- what events within the show would make up for a $45.00 to $50.00 reg fee
(at the gate fee) ie: drags/grudge racing, swap meet, car show, vavle cover races for the young ones, street dance, ect????

4- someone mentioned "club" parking, what would be needed for this to happen?? just an area blocked off for a club?? could this not be easy to attain with a pre registation of the club??

5- how far does the average car guy travel for a show???

6- accomadations, do most of these big shows get the pregristered a break at a "host" hotel of some sort?? is the break not big enough???

7- If a year cut off is needed, how do you go about setting the cut off date?? Every car built has had work anf thought put into it, even the ones bought finished had someone do the work before it was done. If someone in a "tuner" or "mini truck" shows up, is his/her money not the same as ours??
And here is the important part of #7, if they show up in said "tuner" or "mini truck" and see the traditional hot rods will it not be fesable to think that this could bring more people to this vain of the "car hobby" ???

8- Is crossing the boarder (either direction) an issue??

It is easy to please some of the people all the time, it is hard to please most of the people some of the time, and it is impossible to please all the people all the time. But without asking or offering none of this will get fixed.
As for the comment about "aren't we the show" I agree, and most of these shows cost $10,000 or better just to start, so if the show doesn't charge for the cars to get in, then we will all go back to the local parking lots for a cruise.
Myself, I like shows that have something to do other then park my car. It was built to drive.

 

Goodguys does not require membership to attend, or participate in, events.

 

Just to comment on those 2-
45-50 isn't too much if you can fill the car with free p***engers. When 50 turns into $75+ because there's 4 in the car, yeah it's too much. I'm bringing 2 extra consumers for your $5 cokes and $20 tees, and a car that attracts your walk-in gate money. Do you really need a freakin C note to let us in?????

Lack of shade is a killer and easy-ups ****. You can't go to a big show without hearing about an on-site incident with flying tents & innocent bystander's car. Was at a 40 car show in july and everyone was hovered around a resto vette that just had somebody else's tent land on it. They outta require a damage bond to set one up.

 

From the Goodguys' perspective...

This is the perfect list of things that most "corporation" haters say, but don't think through...

1- $45 for three days of entertainment seems cheap to me

2- The venues that are large enough and equipped to handle car shows consist mostly of open space (hence the room to park cars).

3- Goodguys does not allow saving spaces before 10:00am. Yes, a few will get away with it, but Goodguys does patrol and move chairs.

4- Awards are at 2:22 on Sunday. Is that late?

5- How do you suggest to change this? If you have the magic solution to getting more young people involved in hot rodding as opposed to Hondas or video games, I have a job waiting for you.

6- This seems obvious, but the hotels are not owned by the promoters of the events. If you'd like a group rate ask the hotel. They set their own policies and pricing.

7- Goodguys has a bunch of special areas based on type of car, distance driven, etc. but not for clubs. Isn't the special parking area for your club wherever you guys park?

8- The Goodguys Gazette is one of the best car magazines...period. When was the last time you saw one, if ever? It gets non-stop praise from customers and industry people alike. 220 full-color pages with EVERY genre of cl***ic car from traditional to swoopy doopy.

9. I talk to participants all day at every event. So does the event director, the owner and the president. We then have a meeting following each event to discuss what was good and bad.

10- Yep, you are the show. The members are who pay my salary and I thank them CONTINUOUSLY. Everything we do is to cater to the enjoyment of spectators and participants. Do we make mistakes? Yep. That's why we listen to people.


What's funny is that most of the "haters" out there are the cause of their own problem when you get to the root of it. 99% of the feedback I get is positive, but much of the negative goes back to something just plain silly like...

-I was parked in the area marked as the Fire Lane and was told to move. Screw GreedyGuys

-I paid over $4 a gallon for gas to get here and too much for the hotel I'm staying in. Goodguys ****s!

-I've been bringing my same salmon colored 1948 Plymouth with Tron graphics and velour interior for 15 years and I've never been in the Gazette or won an award.

-I didn't find what I was looking for in the swap meet. I'm never coming back.

-I was just saving these 15 spots for my friends and the Goodguys jerks said I couldn't.

The list goes on and on. If you want action you have to differentiate between what the promoter can and can't control, and what is your own doing.

I ALWAYS want feedback from Goodguys customers and feel that my presence on the HAMB makes me VERY accessible. Try asking me a question or voicing your concern. kirkj@good-guys.com

 

Just FYI, Goodguys does not make one penny on food or spectator parking at ANY of their events. Neither does NSRA for that matter. ALL tracks and fairgrounds get all of the space rental money from food vendors and even take a percentage of their profit in many cases.

Goodguys makes money on spectator entry fees, participant entry fees and hard-good vendor space rental.

I don't expect most people to know this, but it's the truth of the matter.


Who makes the most money at big car shows? The venue! They get BIG money for the facility rental, the parking fees and big bucks from food.

 

Awards are at 2:22 on Sunday. Is that late?""

Tht's GOOD!

Terminal aging member rot can be seen at the V8 club...big meets run something like Wednesday to Saturday, BUT awards are on Friday...go to see the show on Saturday, and you find a parking lot full of locked trailers!
This is fine for the members, who are almost all retired, but means zero contact with that part of the hobby for anyone young enough to be en***bered with kids or a job...
That club has become one self-limited to geezers, and the cars they think they are preserving are largely just fodder for the power-gas cap and purple velour crowd who are maybe 15 years younger.
Watch out for shows with awards on Friday or early Saturday...that is without doubt a geriatric motorhoming no kids wanted organization!

 

Of course, that's the entire purpose of doing them on Sunday afternoon - keep the show as filled with cars for people to see for as much of the weekend as possible.

 

That's what I meant. You can enter a car in a Goodguys show without being a member.

 

Next to the smaller venues, i.e. LSR etc ,my favorite "mainstream show" was always the GG shows. I was able to at least drive on the track, which was cool. That to me was worth the admission price.

Of course, I have heard that they are limiting your speed now, which is kind of a bummer. But with all the lawyers lurking out there, I understand that as well.

 

I think the econonmy is the biggest factor. Once you figure in gas, hotel, high priced ****ty food (at the show), registration fee and ony other aspects of getting there it can be expensive. Even for the Blue Suede cruise coming up they want $40 a night to camp. I am 2 hours away and can drive it cheaper than that. For GG Columbus we took a cooler with food and will do the same for the Blue Suede show. I am not paying $3 for a small pop when I can get a 24 pk for a little more than that. Also for what it cost for my wife and I to spectate, I could register a car.

 

Then why did i have to renew my membership to register for Columbus? It seems like they do not give you an option. It coupld be the way I am reading the form.

One thing I would like to see is for GG to do a lifetime membership. I did the NSRA one years ago, never have to worry about it lapsing.

Lowering the spectator costs would be a good thing. This goes for GG and NSRA. Yes you are seeing a lot of cars but when you want to take your family and it is $20 or so each for 4 people that is a big chunk of somebodies pay.

 

Yeah lets all stick together for the sake of all!
But can or will one of you post a thread with a model A hot rod?

 

Man, you said it ALL! That's exactly my situation. Gotta take care of the family...and then my hotrod.

 

I hope nobody told you that you HAD to renew. It's cheap if you do it with your event registration, but definitely NOT required.

We have temporary staff at all events so if anything ever seems like it's not right, look for someone in an actual STAFF shirt. This year they are tan ****ies ****on-downs.

The lifetime thing is a dangerous thing for the company. Just last year paper prices went up like 30%. Paper is one of the most expensive pieces to the magazine puzzle. Lifetime membership, when a magazine is part of it, can kill a company when material or postage prices go up.

 

KIRK!
Cl***y responses! It's good to see someone in your position respond so intelligently and calmly to this post.
People need to realize both organizations are FOR PROFIT "companies", and like any good businees, it's nice to make a profit!
I haven't been a member of either organization for a few years(and I'm an NSRA inspector) mostly because I haven't attended an event in that long. But I do have a buddy who goes to Des Moines and is a member so I get to swipe his Gazettes. I think the job you do on the Gazette is great!
You said you don't have to be a member to attend the events, but how is Mr. "same salmon colored 1948 Plymouth with Tron graphics and velour interior for 15 years and I've never been in the Gazette" going to know if he makes it into the Gazette or not if he's not a member?
People also need to look at these as vacations, and vacations cost more money than they did last year.
I can't believe that someone will go out and spend $40 on a ****py dinner, but ***** that they won't spend that to be a member and get a nice magazine every month.
I belong to the Minnesota Street Rod ***ociation, and a few months ago they showed us what the return on our $20 yearly dues is...It was around $475 if you attended all the club sponsored events and got the monthly newsletter! Yet there are always those who never participate and ***** because they don't get their newsletter "on time".
Anyway...You can't please them all, but you do a GREAT job with the Gazette, and have a KILLER Starliner!

 

Isn't this the truth. I was never so disappointed as when I attended the Oldsmobile Nationals last month here in the Detroit area. I was very excited it was here for the first time so I didn't have to use any vacation time. I was extremely disappointed when I arrived early Saturday morning to not only find just a fraction of the cars still there but the swap meet was a ghost town as well. I knew the cars were being "judged" on Friday with that being their "big day" but I was still expecting folks and their Oldsmobiles to still be around.

I do beleive I was the youngest one with an Oldsmobile there. Certainly not my cup of tea and I can't ever imagine attending another Oldsmobile only event ever again in the future.

 

You do need to join to get your car in correct?

That is why we go as spectators instead of shelling out 50 bucks for the one day that we can attend a national event. Which shows up in your lower car count.

I've done it in the past but not anymore.

It ALWAYS comes down to money. The promoters are trying to earn more and there is nothing wrong with that.

The vendors can't sell enough to pay for their space and make a profit that is worth their effort.

The participants can go to the local cruise night and still not get their picture in a magazine.

Spectators can still shop the parts vendors to see what is new and have 40 bucks extra to spend.

You will still be complaining about the promoters and the price of gas long after I'm dead and buried.

God I love hotrods!

 

I understand what you're saying, but in the grand scheme of things that $5 soda is factored into GG cost. It supplements your fairgrounds fees. It's no different from a consumer standpoint than if you got a cut of the concession but the fairgrounds fee was higher, follow me? Ultimately the same amount of money has to be spread around to make the event happen

 

I think $20 bucks is dirt cheap for all day entertainment. Just went to see a movie the other day. $11.50 each for a 2 1/2 hour movie that ****ed.

Have you been to Disney World Lately?? It's about $100-150 per day per person depending on the site.

Good-guys food is cheap compared to the movies and Disney World.

 

I think so. Even at the smaller shows here in Ohio. Rarely do you see anyone under 65 years old. At my age thats not too far away. I was just talking about this last weekend.
One of the great things about this place is the diversity of ages that have the same ideology. I really think the large expensive shows with the big endor*****ts and vendor base will be gone in 10 years. I would bet we are going back to the beginnings of this hobby with small groups and shows that aren't expensive and closer to home. Driven by the economy and the aging pre-babyboomers.

 

Wow ltownrodder, where should I start? First let me start out with a disclaimer-- this rant isn't directed at YOU but your post highlighted all the 'finer' points I'm tired of contesting as a hot rodder under the age of 30.

You said it best, there is only so much old tin to go around. There would be more to swap at these events but all of the old time guys like YOU bought it 40 years ago and are holding on to it. Because you know, you may finish those 400 projects in the next 20 years before you kick the bucket! That's ok, hold on to it. I've found estate auctions to be a lot cheaper than swap meets at national events anyways.

I would still consider Hershey to be sacred swap meet ground, no tube socks and batteries there. Maybe a few too many motorhomes parked throughout but that's not something you nor I can control. I think the Hershey region AACA does a great job of keeping their swap pure. I for one appreciate it.

I am sooo frustrated with this whole "the hobby is dying off, it is the end of the world" debacle. I shouldn't have to say it, but look at the HAMB-- living proof the hobby- maybe not YOUR idea 'the hobby'- is ALIVE and WELL.

I think I am the problem with NSRA events. I grew up going to NSRA events. Now that I'm older I'm over it. I wanna go to a show where there are things I want to do and people I want to talk to. I don't want to go to the same fairgrounds I grew up going to and ride the same Skyride I've rode since I was six. I'm sure I'm not the only kid on the block that was raised going to large fairground shows with people STILL bringing the same pastel cars as 20 years ago. I remember when Goodguys came to town (Columbus) and listening to the then old guys (now dead) gripe and my parent's and their friends rejoice, they thought NSRA was old then!

I think the other decline in attendence can be attributed to a shift in the recreation of rods and customs. I know myself 9 out of 10 times I would rather get a group of friends together with their HAMB friendly pre-64 cars and go for drive to the lake or somewhere interesting. Sitting at a show all day is not appealing to me.

So, in conclusion, PLEASE don't say 'the hobby' is dying off. Maybe your hobby of pastel colored cars and fairground shows is but not MY hobby of building and driving hot rods.

 

Having been a long time vendor in Both NSRA and Goodguys events, my observation in general would be that the NSRA would be rigid, strict and old-fashioned vs. the flexibility and open-mindedness of Goodguys.

I'm old, but those NSRA founders were conservative old guys when I was a kid. I am ***uming they still run things and I doubt they approve of the ethics and style this forum represents.

 

Not correct for Goodguys events.