SCTA vintage records shouldn't be on books

He may have a point. He may not. Why don't you debate the points? Welcome to the H.A.M.B.

Thanks,
Kurt

 

Some people like to say the SCTA is just “club racing.”

However, for example in the list of ALL 107 car records extant as of 1973, for most of its history the basis of SCTA racing was the idea of “THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE.” There was only ONE record holder possible in each displacement cl*** for streamliner, ONE record holder possible in each displacement cl*** for lakester, as well as several other categories. Setting the record (not a record but the ONE record possible) meant attaining more speed per cubic inch than anyone had ever done for that size engine

In 1974, there were only twelve records possible for open bikes. Six fuel. Six gas. Setting a record meant attaining more speed per cubic inch than anyone had ever done for that size engine on fuel or on gas. There was no such thing as a race frame, modified frame, production frame, or factory bodywork. Any frame and any motorcycle engine was permitted.

At what point did SCTA records start degenerating into a meaningless gobbledygook of alphabet soup unintelligible and meaningless to outsiders? When did it turn into a social club handing out gold stars to make everyone feel good?

 

I am in my recliner, feet up.
This is gonna be GGGGGGGGGGGGGGreat.

 

Ratliff
I see you didn,t answer my question,so I would say you have never been to Speedweek.

Therefore--The fastest thing you have is your mouth so shut the **** up ****breath! and stop wasting everybody,s time and Ryan,s bandwidth.

 

Do you know the "Terminal Velocity of an unladen swallow?".

 

I am one of the few people EVER to have seen in person attempts on both the World Land Speed Record AND the World Water Speed Record. Vehicles I've seen in action in person include the first 200 mph electric car and the first 300 mph open wheel open ****pit car, as well as the lakester that remains the fastest car EVER at an ECTA meet. What have YOU seen?

 

Been going to Bonneville since 1998 and El-mirage since 1992 so i would say i,ve seen a lot.
Al Teague doing 432 etc,etc.
You are still wasting everybodies time.

 

Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

 

You also appear to be one of the few people EVER to get a thread closed at Landracing.com and then trasport a similar dead horse here, so you can beat that dead horse infront of new people on the H.A.M.B.

http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,4548.0.html

Please go away, stop wasting our time.

 

Ratliff
So you have WATCHED people do stuff and done nothing yourself.
A spectator NOT a participant.
Typical armchair critic!!

 

The current human powered land speed record is 81 mph. That’s almost as fast as the slowest car record set at Speedweek 2008. That’s faster than 15 of the bike records set at Speedweek 2008. Beyond that, there were TWO 2,000 cc bike records set that weren’t even 83 mph! How the hell does someone even manage to write bike rules that make it possible to set a 2,000 cc record without even going 83 mph? There was a 500 cc bike record set at only 60.909 mph. That’s 20 mph SLOWER than the human powered land speed record.

At Speedweek 2008 there were 61 car records of over 175 mph set, or 56%, for an average record speed of 191.8 mph.

By coincidence, the average speed of the 107 car records listed in the 1974 SCTA rulebook is also 191.8 mph.

So how has it happened that 35 years of technical progress has had no influence whatsoever on the average speed of SCTA car records?

There were seven motorcycle records set at Speedweek 2008 that were slower than the 57 mph skatecar record set at Signal Hill in 1977.

There were two car records set at Speedweek 2008 that were slower than the 94 mph 750 cc cl*** production car record set in 1931 at Daytona by Sir Malcolm Campbell.

 

My be hard to cut & paste an answer to a specific question.

 

Without ever having built a racecar before, I built on a shoestring budget a one of a kind experimental car that included features such as propeller propulsion AND a conventional steel tubing spaceframe embedded inside a structural sandwich composite to turn the car into a monocoque. I also did the design calculations for the centrifuge Art Arfons built as part of his last land speed record project. What have YOU done that didn't involve imitating what a thousand people before you had already done?

 

wow... propellers.... so you built an air boat with wheels?

 

Listen everybody..... Ratliff is right... I hate to admit it, but we really need to get rid of all these different cl***es. I mean,... were all just wasting time with all these small displacement vehicles. Let's just p*** the whole event over to the super rich guys and maybe some big corporate sponsors and just let them go after the top top speeds.
Think about it,. it will be kind of nice..... When we go to speedweek, we'll only have to watch maybe 5 or 6 cars instead of these 500 entries that we have now. It would be sooo much easier. Or better yet, maybe they can televise the even, and we can watch it from our couches at home. That would Rule !!!!

Thanks Ratliff for opening my eyes. I'm gonna go build a 6 engine hyabusa streamliner and get rid of all my stupid obsolete 4 bangers. Sweet !!!!!

 

Airboats don't have wheels. They don't have a steering wheel. They don't have brakes. They're steered through a set of rudders mounted in the windblast from the propeller. Airboats have a wide flat bottom hull that allows them to be operated as an all terrain vehicle that can be run on ice, snow, or gr***.

 

Bobby, please help me out.

I dont know enough about LSR Racing to really understand the line of thinking of this guy.
( although I did volunteer on a LSR Racecar for a couple of years...)

Is he comparing Old Records to Current Records, set in Cl***es that did not Excist back in the Day?

Apples & Oranges?

If so, does this Thread need to stay open?

 

Three port Olds OHV head on a Chevy.

 

“The sport is continually advancing. Just this year we had requests to add a B engine cl*** to Production Supercharged and a J engine cl*** to Modified Sports. This morning I received a request to add a K engine cl*** to GT/MS.” (Dan Warner, SCTA Rules Committee)
That’s not advancing the sport. That’s just rearranging the alphabet soup. Advancement is bringing in ideas that ARE NEW TO LAND SPEED RACING or using old ideas in new ways.
Here’s a few ideas on real advancement.
1. Cl***es that not only bring new people into the sport but reflect the growing interest in smaller more fuel efficient vehicles. For example, a 50 cc cl*** for streamliners and lakesters with construction rules written to reflect these cars aren’t going to go 200 mph.
2. Cl***es for alternative fuels and energy such as liquid natural gas, hydrogen, compressed air cars, flywheel powered cars, hybrid or mixed propulsion streamliners and lakesters, or diesel electric streamliners and lakesters.
3. Rules written to guide and encourage the use of as well as acknowledge the variety of construction techniques developed during the last thirty years that don’t involve welding mild steel tubing.
4. Cl***es that acknowledge the fact the FIA and SCTA definitions of an automobile have not one single word that says anything about 100% of the propulsion having to be transmitted through the wheels.
5. Cl***es for snowmobiles or tracked vehicles. Asphalt drag racing snowmobiles have used slick tracks for years. The idea they would tear up the salt any worse than cars is just ignorant.

 

I read that your first "experiment" went so well that your next experiment will include "multicoque". Truth to the rumors?

 

so you built a car without wheels? or an airboat with them?

which is it? how fast is it? does it even run?

 

Why not just one cl***? Outright land speed record?
Any one feel like taking on Thrust SSC and Andy Green?
Hey Jerkliff, Ive been skydiving with the worlds fastest man on land. Thats much more fun than calculating ****.
Doc.

 

no dude, the guys a ****ing troll... and while i do enjoy a nice troll roast, this thread is pointless and a waste of space

 

So your answer would be to add even more cl***es for prop powered cars? That seems to be your logic. And while we are at it, before you got the boot on Header Flames" and landrace.com, the question came up many times. How fast is the propster? This never seemed to get really answered. Also I have woundered, just what was this centrifuge used to test? I'm not used to the purpose of centrifuges in LSR. Maybe you could share these "design calculations" with us.

 

At least up through 1974, there was no such thing as a supercharged, normally aspirated, fuel, or gas streamliner or lakester. All streamliner and lakester records were solely based on engine displacement. To set a streamliner or lakester record you had to attain more speed per cubic inch than anyone had ever done in your displacement cl***. There were only twelve records possible in streamliner (A through K and X). There were only seven records possible in lakester (A through F and X).

In 1974, there were only twelve SCTA open bike records possible. Six fuel. Six gas. Any engine in any frame.

 

oh yeah... 'cause propeller powered cars... you invented that.




Moderators, please close this thread.

 

This guy had conspiracy theories too.

 

The record for a prop-driven vehicle on wheels was set in 1931 with the Rail Zeppelin, a pusher propeller self-propelled railcar the size of a bus and shaped like a bullet train that went 141 mph.

Some people have questioned what prop-driven cars could bring to land speed racing when there are already hundreds of cl***es on the books. Aside from the question of what those hundreds of cl***es bring when they're all just variations on the same old formulas, there's not a single car in any of those cl***es capable of even 1g acceleration at Bonneville. Even figuring conservatively, three pounds of thrust per horsepower with current propeller technology is a fact of physics the way gravity is a fact of physics. To debate that point is a waste of time. With just five hundred horsepower, you'd be looking at 1,500 lbs of thrust. And that can certainly be done in a car with a gross weight of 1,000 lbs or less. That's a 1.5g car. Even just that would make it the fastest accelerating piston engine car in the history of Bonneville.

The question becomes what is the real point of land speed racing? Is the point what an individual can accomplish with ingenuity and available technology? Or is the point only what can be done when hobbled under archaic rules?

Until the idea was finally swept aside in 1981, the olympics were governed under a myth of amateurism created by the founders of the modern olympic movement for the sole purpose of keeping rich elites from having to ***ociate with the common working man. I cannot see how the idea of keeping thrust-driven cars out of SCTA racing is any more fair or sensible than the myth which was used for so many years in the olympics to keep the ruling elites from being revealed as second best.

 

I have to get one before Hershey! Still wondering if any of my old parts made it to any of his Bonneville motors.