I know a bunch of people here have used John Deere Blitz Black paint for a semi-gloss / flat finish. Therefore, I need your advice on my situation. I painted a car this morning with the Blitz Black. I did one light, mist coat and let it sit for 15 minutes. I then followed it up with one heavy wet coat. Well, 8 hours later and the paint is looking shiny. Not flat at all. What gives? Does it take a long time to dry to a flat finish. Anyone else shoot it and have it start glossy and dull out as it dried? Should I heat the garage over night (with a fireplace) to help in the drying process? I am not trying to get in a discussion about the over use of flat black finishes on cars. I am just looking for anyone's personal experience with this product and how it turned out for them just after painting with it and after it fully cured/dried. Thanks. <!-- / message --> ***Update*** As per all of the responses it seems that all of the flattening agent had settled to the bottom of the can and I failed to mix it good enough before spraying it. Alright, thanks everyone for the advice. I got the can shaken and stirred.... all the goo is gone and mixed into the remaining paint. How do you recommend that I proceed. How long should I wait to spray it again and what should I do to the paint on the car now before hitting it again with the newly shaken (damn, that was a dumb mistake on my part!!!) Blitz Black.
There is no flattening agent that is needed to be added in Blitz Black that I am aware of. It is a semi-gloss / flat finish right out of the can.
I thinned it a little and added hardener when i shot my car.Does it have more shine than this ?It came out about like i wanted it to.It was about 70 degrees outside when i sprayed it.
The can had been sitting for about a year at a buddies house. There seemed to be a gooey 1/2" substance at the bottom of the can when I stirred it. It really do much with the mixing. I am starting to think this might be my problem. With enough mixing will this goo at the bottom (most likely the flattening agent) remix with the paint?
Try a little thinner & stir untill the goo dissolves, more than likely thats the flattening agent. If you can take it to the local paint store & use their paint shaker,
Yup, that's it. You left all of the "flat" at the bottom of the can. But now, if you mix it in with what's left in the can, it might be TOO much flattening agent for the black paint that's still left after what you already used. Flattening agent is almost like a grey powder that is mixed into the paint. After only a few days it will settle back to the bottom of the can in that thick gooey stuff you saw. If you do decide to mix it, mix it REALLY well and pour it through a couple of paint strainers in case you get chunks.
It's just like the guys have said, a mixing problem. Keep in mind paint that sits around can go bad. I needed to flatten some paint one day and used an old model car trick tal*** powder it works great. Will it last? CRUISER
Paint that sits around does not go bad. Catalysts and hardeners can go bad and will, but paint will not. It will settle out and different portions will become detatched from each other, but a good amount of time on a shaker will fix it right up. Thats your problem DMAC, get it on a shaker for a decent amount of time, at least 10 min. Home Depot will do it for you if you bat your eyes at the counter girl. Tal*** powder is basically flattening agent in its purest form. It will probably last just as well as any other flattened paint.
Alright, thanks everyone for the advice. I got the can shaken and stirred.... all the goo is gone and mixed into the remaining paint. How do you recommend that I proceed. How long should I wait to spray it again and what should I do to the paint on the car now before hitting it again with the newly shaken (damn, that was a dumb mistake on my part!!!) Blitz Black.
Paint that sits around can go bad, it's called shelf life. True, most modern automotive paint that hasn't been activated can last a very long time. Same for the old nitro lacquers. But the blitz black is a different animal, a basic air dry enamel. Here's a ton of info straight from the factory...Pay careful attention to the recoat time before you shoot it again.... From: Valspar Paint General Manager. (They make Blitz Black for John Deere.) #1. If the existing paint is relatively good condition (ie. no peeling paint, no large amount of rust, etc) no primer is needed. Scuff sand the existing paint with extra fine grit sandpaper, wipe surface with a clean cloth and then apply John Deere Blitz Black. #2. If primer is used due to bare metal or minor surface defects, we suggest the John Deere Buff Primer (available in aerosols, quarts and gallons). This is a very user friendly formulation that provides good sandability, excellent filling/sealing properties and enhanced corrosion resistance. #3. A reducer is needed for optimum sprayability and appearance. We suggest the use of the John Deere thinner/reducer (available in quarts gallon and fives). It is formulated specifically for John Deere paints. The mix ratio is 8 parts John Deere paint : 1 part John Deere thinner. #4. John Deere Blitz Black is an air dry formulation...but if a you want the paint to dry faster and harder, John Deere has a hardener in their product line. It is available in pints, part number REN3001. The mix ratio is 8 parts John Deere paint : 1 part REN3001 hardener : 1 part John Deere thinner. Some more info...the exact same formulation is used in the aerosols as in the quarts/gallons. This helps with touch-ups and is critical in low gloss applications such as the Blitz Black. !!!!!!! IMPORTANT !!!!!!! John Deere Blitz Black cureing windows. Shooting to a good surface IE: Bare metal, John Deere Primer, or to a good base of existing paint scuffed up. 1 light tack coat and wait no longer than 15 minutes to shoot the full wet coat. For a second coat which is NOT needed but why the hell not. Wait up to but NO longer than 3 hours to apply second coat. But if you go past 3 hours DO NOT shoot another coat because the paint will react and go to $#!T. Wait 36 hours until you shoot the next coat. For each coat the same times apply. But one good coat with the 8 to 1 to 1 (8-1-1 paint-thinner-hardener) will be more than enough. Due to a new label project at John Deere, the new part number for Blitz Black is TY-25669 (this replaces TY-6416). THE FORMULA HAS NOT CHANGED!!!!!! SAME DURABILITY, SAME COLOR, SAME GLOSS LEVEL, ETC... I have a color card that includes some technical information that may be helpful to you. Let me know if you want me to send you a copy. The REN3001 hardener will work very well with Blitz Black. Mix ratios are 8 parts paint to 1 part REN3001 hardener to 1 part thinner. This combination will make the paint film cure faster to a hard finish. A gallon will cover a easily cover a small car. My recommendation for thinning is to start with an 8 parts paint to 1 part thinnersome guys like to spray the product thin...some like to spray it thick. Spray one tack coat followed by one maybe two full wet coats for the best results. Let me know if you need more info. Shawn Mahady General Manager Aftermarket Specialties Division<!-- / message -->
Choppedsled, thanks for posting all of that info. The one last question I have is what do I do with the paint that is on the car now. Do I scuff it, scotchbrite it, or leave it as is and shoot another coat over it.
i think the directions above are pretty self explanatory about shooting over good paint that has decent adhesion...
Used Blitz Black with no problems. Any paint needs to be mixed well. I use this paint whenever I want a semi gloss look and a durable finish. You'll like the look!! Good Luck
Hey, Given that I don't know how thick you have sprayed the last coat on this job, I'd be inclined to let this job sit for up to one week, outside. I would lightly scuff the job with the gray colour scuff pads, wipe the job down with a precleaner solvent, and reshoot with the 'well-mixed' finish. If you reshoot over semi-dry alkyd enamel, you run the risk of it lifting and wrinkling. Be sure to use an approved resperator if you use the hardner in your refinishing project. Good luck, S****ey Devils C.C. "Meanwhile, back aboard The Tainted Pork"
I have used both gallon cans and spray cans of Blitz Black on various projects with minor success (It is not the best paint out there by far, but it is cheap and works "ok" on certain projects). A couple other thoughts on the gloss issue. Yes, you have to mix it and get ALL of the flattener mixed into the paint. Yes, it is a very good idea to strain it after mixing to make sure their are NO agglomerated (stuck together) particles that will end up in your paint job. A paper strainer is ok. I am not sure what John Deere offers as a "hardener" but if it is an isocyanate catalyst then you are likely increasing the gloss when you add it. It acts like a resin and dilutes the flattener amount in the total paint when you use it. Many people using very low gloss coatings will vary the amount of hardener slightly to adjust the gloss (i.e., industrial and oem painters doing work like cell phones and dashboard paints...) This is common. If you are adding hardener, be aware that it is VERY easy to add to much which can dramatically increase your gloss. You MUST be accurate with the quan***y added, and even then I think it will raise the gloss significantly. Also, you mention putting on a mist coat and then a "heavy" coat. The heavier the final coat, the higher the gloss you will achieve. I would suggest a mist coat followed by a "medium" coat, or follow the mist coat with 2 medium coats with 5-10 minutes dry time between. I think you have a combo deal of leaving flattener in the can, mixing in isocyanate hardener and shooting a final HEAVY wet coat, all of which will increase the gloss, perhaps a bunch in combination... I would highly suggest shooting a couple of panels to see if the finish is what you want before shooting a whole car. Make sure you are happy with the appearance BEFORE shooting your car again. Good luck.
Hello all, great site ,my first post. The first thing I do when I get the paint home is turn the can upside down till I'm ready to use it. When the can is opened it makes mixing easier cause the heavy stuff is now at the top. When I take the lid off next thing is take a punch or nail,whatever,punch 3 little holes in the rim of the can (where lid seats).Helps to drain paint back in the can and not a mess of paint dripping out. Jerry.
Thanks for everyone's input on this one! I reshot the car today basically following all of the points posted by redline. The finish came out exactly how I wanted it with the exception of a faint amount of tiger stripes on the roof. Overall, I am happy with the job. Thanks again.
Looks like you already got an answer to your question. Although I think its the first time in all my years that I have heard anyone complain about black paint being too shiney. I was going to say that a certain amount of thre gloss may have come from spraying it wet. Granted it does have a flattener in it, but the trick to makeing anything come out dull is shooting it dry. I'm going to guess that if it came out glossy you're going to have to scuff it and shoot it again. Or else park it in a sand storm.
pics would be cool - how much for a gallon and do ya get it at the tractor supply store? ***uming since its a john deere color
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