I was reading Racer Brown's 1955 article "Soup that Chev" this evening where he talks about how great the chevy 261 is and wondering to myself: why has no-one thought to reproduce the blocks? I know they're becoming more and more rare since they were only in large trucks and buses. Is the demand no great enough for them or is the process of casting an engine just too much of an undertaking for a small bussiness only interested in casting small numbers? I thought it would be a great idea, especially given the resurgence of interest in the 49 to 54 chevs in recent years. Thoughts?
For what it would cost to make one block from scratch, you could probably buy yourself enough used ones to last a lifetime.
There are lots of 261 engines just north of the border, lots of them. Most, if not all the Canadian Pontiacs, which are really Chevies with 7/8 scale Pontiac bodies, have the 261 engine. I have an aunt back on the farm in Manitoba with a 61 Strato Chief that has a 261 with 3 on the tree still runs and drives. Remember back in the day that they would blow by many 283's. Check the old Canadian junk yards.
We have at least one in our collection, and I've seen others. I could have bought a complete '60 Chevy dump truck last summer that looked like it would run and go for $500, I have no doubt the six in it was a 261. Plus I am sure GM would hit you with a license fee that would make any repro cost prohibitive in any case. I know guys are repopping Pontiac V8 blocks that are made so you can go nuts with the cubic inch displacement, maybe check with one of them as far as what they had to do to be okay with GM in making them.
If you want to get into the casting business, think about HEADS. A better designed head would be a blessing. Maybe something with inline valves, flat combustion camber with camber in piston for better squish turbulance, or shallow V8 style chamber. Some V8 style rockers. How about raised ports, raised V/C rail. Just the important stuff. If your going to start with a clean sheet of paper, lets make it the best we can. Ideas anyone? Oh, almost forgot the most important thing here, Make it so I can afford it.
I've seen block casting operations from all over the world, and it is no small production. The tools and equipment alone would be a monumental step. Don't forget the most important part, the molten iron/aluminum to fill the package. I guess you could do it if you were insanely wealthy and not looking for a return from your investment. I don't think the ends justify the means.
Ask the crew at Motor City Flathead how much they've got invested in the new flathead block--that should turn you off to the idea.
Look up the website of the guy who is moving towards producing Model A Ford repro crate motors, with improved bearings and innards. His site has a LOT of interesting info on the design and production aspects of a big project.
I know Patrick's pretty well, and he has been toying with the idea of having patterns made to repop the Fenton flathead early heads......$50K for patterns to make it. Since those heads are the same for the left and right side of the engine, that is probably why many flatheads are only available in the early style. The 8BA style of course would require (2) seperate patterns to make a set and double the cost. The cost of the patterns is proportional to the size of the casting I sure, so unless you had a huge market beating your door down youwould never recoup your investment. Then you still have to machine them. Its fun to daydream about those possibilities until you look in your wallet.....
Yes...Model A market is huge by old car standards, and supplemented by the retro hotrod market. 261 has only the retro hotrod market, really. An oddball sect within an oddball sect... Market could be broadened a bit by making the engine as a general replacement design for all the Chevy sixes of that gneeral family, able to take all the variations in mounts and accessories and able to be reasonably well disguised as any of the stockers...
It will cost, much, much more to make than you think, and probably more than you can sell it for. Of the people who say "I definitely, absolutely, positively have to have one", perhaps 3-5% might buy it - if it were $1,000. For $3,000 none of them will, and certainly not after waiting a few years. Where are you going to get the blueprints? Who is going to make the mold - no, you can't just give them a perfect NOS block and say "duplicate this". What will you use for start-up expenses - deposits? Your 2nd mortgage? Simplify the process: 1. take $100,000 2. put it in an ashtray 3. wait 5 years 4. set fire to it Same effect.
Who would definitely, absolutely, positively have to have a six cylinder? A restorer maybe? Are very many people restoring those cars?
There is a lot involved in the casting process, especially when you are talking about an engine block. You would first have to get an original print from somewhere showing all the locations of the journals and every other feature located in the block, then most tooling places now work directly from the solidworks model of your part so you would have to remodel the part in solidworks or something similiar that could better adapt to an engine block (if you got the print I would love to do the solidworks portion for you). Then once you've spent your year developing the new layout for the block you would have to get with the mold shop to start tooling and you're looking at probably close to 50-100k for the tooling then probably 300-500 a part out of the mold. In short I believe no one has gotten into it for the simple fact of there would really be no return. I have looked into doing this for other hard to find parts (just lookin to make a buck) and the initial start up tends to always out way the return, unless you have a nice chunk of change put away and aren't really looking to make it back for a couple of years. Just my 2 cents and its barely worth that!
I don't think there are many inliners out there comparatively, and the ones that are are usually inliner's because they're budget oriented. I really enjoy the relative uniqueness of an inline engine, but I don't think I would want to pay 4000 dollars for something that weighs more than a big block, has about the same bore as a 305, and no aftermarket head support, piston support (except for egge's) or rod support. They only made about 200 wayne chevy heads total, and the guy making and selling the repop's is defunct. A beat set of 12 port heads goes for 4500 and up depending on condition. Even as a labor of love, there won't be a ton of return on investment.
You can find a 261 without that much looking if you really want one. A Wayne head might be harder. If you really want a 12 port you can buy a Howard (Arias) 12 port head for a GMC or a racier Skinner (Fontana) head for the GMC. For a while Charlie Baker tried to sell Horning-Fisher GMC heads. I don't think any of them made any money from these things. I think You can buy a Wayne GMC head from Don Ferguson, same guy will sell you Ardun heads. Step up and put your money down.
"definitely, absolutely, positively have to have..." Referring to the responses (on other boards) for a new slant six block, slant six head, Ford 250 block & head, AMC block and head, and every other giant start-up cost/low volume bit of obsolete speed equipment. There's always someone who is very disappointed "why don't they make a DOHC conversion for my Mom's station wagon?". In addition, most of those owners have that engine because.... it's all they can afford. When they figure out that the final cost will be far more than: 1. all the other speed equipment 2. converting to a V8 3. a turbo 4. the car is worth they somehow stop participating. Just google all the problems with the Cadillac and Olds heads - years in the making and still no reliable product. I used to develop and sell little helpful bits (all older Harley stuff: big valves, special shafts, stroker flywheels, clutch plates, carb adapters) made from my drawings, but never tried to make really complex stuff - I lucked out. What do you do when after making 100 261 blocks sold for $3,000 each, the buyers ***emble the engines, and they all have no oil pressure (minor machining error)? Do you refund $300,000? Do you pay to have 100 engines repaired on site? The risk is far more than the return on your money.
Somethings there are "should not be done's",cus they are a wast of time and $,when there are many far better ways.laying around for cheep. Inline 6 is OK to use,even looks good with 2 to 3 carbs and some headers sort of,add a little chrome and ya gots a small hot rod motor if it's all ya got,but doing anything p***ed that to a L6 is asking it to be a V8=time to have a V8 $ and power a head
The Jalopy Journal
