I'm looking at buying a sbc that has been bored 30 over, has an elgin E1011P cam (292 int/ 300 exh adv dur), and roughly 9:1 compression. It has an edelbrock intake with a holley carb on it now but the current owner doesn't remember if its a dual plane intake or a single plane. He got a good buy on a used Viper and has put all his time and energy into that. The motor has been on a stand in his garage for the past 3 years covered with a plastic bag. I'm just assuming it will need to be freshened up. From what little information I have here, how can I estimate what kind of power it will make? Short of buying Desktop Dyno.
Well the intake is easy just get the numbers or the name off it and go to the edelbrock site and look it up. How much zot it has is really partly dependent on which SBC bored .030 it is, and then at best its a guess. I wouldn't guess that you would be much more than 400 hp or much less than 350 with the info that you have and assumeing that it is a 350(355). But it is anyone's guess at this point. Was the motor thrashed before it went on the stand, or was it rebuilt and then put on the stand. If it was a fresh motor and properly assembled there is no reason to believe that it needs a freshening.
If you can hook up a starter, you could get compression readings. Otherwise you are really up to trusting the guy for a lot of the work done. What price, if I might be so bold, as the price can say a lot about the whole deal. Cosmo
Oughtta be somewhere in the 280-320hp range, realistically speaking...might be a wee bit soft on the bottom end (as far as torque goes) with that cam...especially if it has a single plane intake on it...but a set of 3.90 rear gears would make it go like hell in a light to moderate weight car! Just look for the obvious...signs that water has gotten into the engine and seepage from gaskets and seals. Pull the spark plugs, squirt some oil or WD40 into the cylinders and turn the motor over a few times. Drain whatever oil is in it, and refill it with fresh oil. Change the filter and install new spark plugs before you fire it for the first time. Look the engine over thoroughly for fluid leaks after it's been run...check gasket and seal areas as well as the freeze plugs and galley plugs ) the ones you can see). (In addition...I make a habit out of pulling the carb off of ANY engine that's been sitting...you want to be POSITIVE that nothing found it's way into the intake manifld before you turn it over and fire it up!...you know...'an ounce of prevention'...!!!)
If it has been sitting for that long, I would make sure that he stored it correctly; meaning that no moisture has gotten to the enternals. Just a plastic bag covering it up may not have done the job. I have the Dyno program at home, I'll run it tonight and see what it says. Hey, this was my 500th post too!
He has receipts for about $2k. He said he built the engine, ran it less than a hundred miles, and pulled it because it always had some blue smoke. It was assembled by a local machine shop, My hope is that the rings just hadn't seated properly yet, and not that someone install the rings wrong. We haven't worked out an exact price yet but he's throwing numbers out of under $500.
[ QUOTE ] My hope is that the rings just hadn't seated properly yet, and not that someone install the rings wrong. [/ QUOTE ] Hopefully he broke the cam in correctly too. $500 sounds pretty good though.
[ QUOTE ] Oughtta be somewhere in the 280-320hp range, realistically speaking...might be a wee bit soft on the bottom end (as far as torque goes) with that cam...especially if it has a single plane intake on it...but a set of 3.90 rear gears would make it go like hell in a light to moderate weight car [/ QUOTE ] I agree.
Ok, I didnt have the exact cam on file, but: With a 600cfm carb, dual plane manifold, and small tube (not racing) headers w/mufflers, I get: 301 HP at 5000 rpm 354 TQ at 4000 rpm With a single plane manifold: 314 HP at 5000rpm 358 TQ at 4000rpm
[ QUOTE ] Ok, I didnt have the exact cam on file, but: With a 600cfm carb, dual plane manifold, and small tube (not racing) headers w/mufflers, I get: 301 HP at 5000 rpm 354 TQ at 4000 rpm With a single plane manifold: 314 HP at 5000rpm 358 TQ at 4000rpm [/ QUOTE ] Damn, I'm good!
Man Hack, you right there in the ballpark! Also, HP curve is pretty much the same with either manifold, but with the dual plane, the torque curve is much flatter.
[ QUOTE ] .030 over SBC. [/ QUOTE ] Is it a 265 or a 400 ? Or somewhere is between ? And what do you want to do with it ? I wouldn't run a single plane manifold on the street, unless the motor was very large and/or the car very light. Smoking could be valve guides,valve seals,rings and/or wrong honing pattern. It would have to be torn down completely,and start again. It could be simple to fix(cheap) or not(expensive).
Look at the reciept.... Probably has MOLY rings, those take awhile to seat....... Does it have clevite bearings? what brand of pistons? are they forged or $3.00 each badgers? what does the crank measure?..... LUKESTER
[ QUOTE ] He has receipts for about $2k. He said he built the engine, ran it less than a hundred miles, and pulled it because it always had some blue smoke. It was assembled by a local machine shop, My hope is that the rings just hadn't seated properly yet, and not that someone install the rings wrong. We haven't worked out an exact price yet but he's throwing numbers out of under $500. [/ QUOTE ] I´ve built a 327 .040 over last winter, the oil consumption has been quite high during the first 700-800 miles. Now that I have about 2500 miles on it the oil consumption is completly gone, there´s no need to refill between changes. Try to ask the seller if the engine smoked all the time ( rings not properly seated?)or if smoking occurred stronger when he stepped off the throttle( valve guides?). But anyway, 500$ sounds like a good score for a fresh sbc. At least over here...
Molly rings seat almost imediately if they are installed properly and used in bores that have been honed using the recommended procedure. They were designed to cut the time taken to get a new car up to normal driving speeds, eliminating the old break-in procedure a new car used to have. Normally a set of molly rings will be seated by the time you set the timing, break in the cam (20-30 minutes at 2,000-2,500 RPM) and readjust the idle. If the rings have not seated in this time period, or shortly after, something with the installation procedure has not been properly addressed. Frank
Also the heads used will make a big difference in the hp and torque numbers. I prefer heads with 1.94 valves over the 2.02s for a street engine. You won't see any advantage to the big heads until over 4000 rpm. I think the cam sounds a bit wild for a daily driver. with that cam amd single plane intake you will need to get a higher stall convertor to keep you and the car happy. If the engine is for a saturday night special then the big cam and single plane would be great. It is a bit radical for a grocery getter.
I should have specified that its a 350 bored 30 over running TRW pistons. The build sheet from the machine shop doesn't specify what rings he used. I don't think he went cheap though. I only say that because I know some people he works with, they tell me he buys quality parts for his toys. Anything over 300 horse in a '52 Chevy pickup should be plenty. Especially since this will just be a weekend toy, Back to the 50's, Good Guys in Des Moines, Cruiser. Weekend runs to Home Depot will be that much more fun too!
I find it interesting that there was so much talk about the motor before the cubic inches were revealed.
My thoughts also HATCH. That cam is plenty for a 283-307 but not bad for a 406. With a single plane manifold on a 355 it will be a dog under 2800 -3000 rpm . Unfortunatly thats where a lot of street cars are driven. Also Moly rings do seat almost immeditately upon starting .Chances are it's the valve guides,rings were installed on dirty cyl. walls,or could just be a rich carb. Tear it down slowly and carefully and check everything.
[ QUOTE ] He has receipts for about $2k. He said he built the engine, ran it less than a hundred miles, and pulled it because it always had some blue smoke. It was assembled by a local machine shop, My hope is that the rings just hadn't seated properly yet, and not that someone install the rings wrong. We haven't worked out an exact price yet but he's throwing numbers out of under $500. [/ QUOTE ] If it was offered to me today I'd just take the motor and run, without even looking, but then life essentials such as V8 motors and such cost a leeetle bit more this side of the pond $500 may just buy you an untested, non running, rust covered cut-out SBC in this part of the world
[ QUOTE ] I just ran the numbers assuming it was a 350. [/ QUOTE ] Same here...I just assumed it was your basic ho-hum 350 bored .030"...it's what the masses DO! Some single plane intakes...namely the Torker II from Edelbrock, actually work very well on a street engine...I put one on a 305 to KILL OFF some it's low rpm grunt...it was spinning the tires too much off the line! (Had a Performer at the time), the Torker II got it off the line with less wheelspin, and came on hard about 100 feet out...really did the trick! An OLD Holley Street Dominator single plane works good with a cam about that size, too...but it'd need a slightly looser converter (or a manual trans) and 3.73 or steeper (higher numerically) gears to realize it's full potential. However...the best all around intake manifold EVER designed for a street small block is the legendary 1967-69 Z28 302 dual plane aluminum 4v intake...I've never seen one that ran so strong! (Holley makes a near copy of it, and the Edelbrock Performer RPM is real close, too!).
I run all my motors on a home made test stand. I hook up a garden hose to the water pump inlet and let it run out into the grass on the other side. That way you can make your own diagnosis before you install it. Mine has an oil pressure gauge and a 2 gallon fuel cell.Saves time for troubleshooting as well. Everything is out in the open.
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