Hot Rods Please read this This is very important! Registration of vehicles

wow, I'm trying to decipher what the hell you're talking about, but damn if some it makes any sense.

and your sig is dumb...

 

It sounds like a lot of strong arm bullshit from a state desk jockey. How it the hell will they know if it is the same care if he changes the vin# and registers it with a state provided vin? I have never had the state take pictures of my cars. They are just trying to intimidate him and it sounds like he is letting them.

 

OK, first off, the chick at the S.O.S. is full of shit about the '08 safety. He should have gotten her name and let her suprvisor know about her attitude (unless he was a dick first!). He needs to go back and sit down w/ someone, explain what he's trying to do and they'll help get it done. Probably just get a bonded title. When you don't go off on them and try doing things inside the law, things usually go pretty smoothly up there. They want to catch the 'bad' guys not Joe Hotrodder.

Oh, yeah, I'm thinking ('cause I can) that his sig is an excersize in sarcasm so therefore isn't actually 'dumb'!!!

beep beep YOUR ass!

Don't get riled up, I'm just giving you some grief!

 

No, they are on the BLOCK.

 

just to set the record straight the guy from new york is in burdett n.y. sells in hemmings motor news. he was selling paperwork with a piece of rusted frame with the numbers on it. he told me the story a couple weeks ago. cadillac dave

 

This is some silly shit in this post. Current safety standards? WRONG...standards equal to the year of the car or better (as in seat belts, turn signals, safety glass, etc.). No title> That's what a "BILL OF SALE" is all about. You can get Bill of Sale forms from just about any DMV or Sec of State. Some states want a temporary bond. It's so easy to do this shit if you don't over think it.

 

I think ya'll are missing the main point here. The point is he tried to get around the (pain in the butt) legal way of registering his car. Instead, he tried to register the car illegally and got caught. Now, he's REALLY going to have a hard time working through the system.
Larry T

 

http://www.dmv.org/il-illinois/department-motor-vehicles.php
or
www.dmv.org

 

I can't say I'm too sympathetic. Illinois does bonded titles as the legit way to register an old car with no paperwork, and will issue a serial number if none exists. It may not be the best or easiest way to do it, but they do have a fairly reasonable legimiate means to do it.

The problem with NY registrations is they gave you a new one every year until the last 20 or so years when they made it biannual. Joe Schmoe from Buffalo cleans out his junk drawer and finds a stack of them dad never tossed and sells them. Suddenly there's 5 cars in three states with the same serial number, one registered off the '48 reg, one the '49, one the '50, and so on. Someone does a national check on that VIN and you have a problem. Unless the car was stolen or the VIN was active in the last 7 years, NY has no record of it in it's computer.

And New York made them useless, unless you have an old one that's specific to your car, it's just as easy to get a new one, you don't have to have the car inspected or forms notarized or anything. What exactly they check on the serial numbers, they check in Albany before you get a transferrable registration.

 

For once California must be the easiest state to do this stuff in...A car with no paper work and not on the DMV computer can be done in about 1/2 hour and $26 ,I have done several including motorcycle and OHVs...vin inspection and a statement of facts in all you need,tell them you were always the owner and it was titled to you and you lost all paperwork and let it fall off the computer and now you want to re-register it,tell them where it has been stored and has not been operated..piece of cake!!

 

I am going though the same thing right now with my tudor sedan. I have the numbers for the original engine block that I am going to try to get a bonded title for the car with. I just dont want to have to put everything on the car that the state requies for a bonded title. Go to the secretary of state website and search bonbed title. The vehcle must meet the ILLinois vehicle code90. Wipers, windshield washer, parking brake the works. No air bags or anything involved. I have been working with the local secretary of state investigtor for a couple months now on mine. He took my plates and registration so I cannot dive the car. But is being helpful on how to get a bonded title.

 

Well, I searched for a 35-36 Ford pickup for 3 years before buying the 35 I now own.
And you know, I held out till I found one with a CLEAN title. Never mind that I drove from Miami to Minnessota and back, I got what was most important.
My truck is still in pieces, but I not only have a clean Florida title in my possesion, I also have that nice "personalized" Florida tag with a current registration sticker on it.
I couldn't imagine dumping $20,000. into a car without even knowing if you'll be able to register it.

 

There is a state law/rule where you can apply for street rod titles, but yes they have to get inspected and have all the stuff basicaly pass the NRSA safty deal, I know an inspector that will come to my shop and do them if we have enough cars to do at once to make his trip worth while. They brag about how much time and effort they put into this and it does work to a point...but in Illinois, you can not get insurance legally till there is a title...so you build the car the whole way with no insurance? What if the building burns...most home owners insurance won't pay for an expensive car vary easily. They also went through all this politial crap and the cut off is 1948...leaving a ton of others oput in the cold....more government at its finest .....

 

In Tennessee, if you do not have a title as long as the car hasn't been registered in 20 years and it has a vin tag, you have no problem. Just feel out the papers at the clerks office and pay for your license and you will get a title. A lot of people still do not know this law. If you buy a body that has no vin and you build a frame or buy an aftermarket one, there is no problem there. you can go to the clerks office and take a few receipts from where you built the car, feel out a few pages of paperwork and they send it to the state. An inspector will come inspect the car and issue a vin tag for the body and frame. You then take the paper he gives you back to the clerks office and get your tags and they will mail you a title. It will come back as a special build, but it will have the correct make and year model on it. My dad's Model A sedan and T coupe were done this way. My brothers fiberglass T-bucket was also titled this way back in the early 80's. He took the receipts where he bought the body and the metal for the frame into the clerks office, car was inspected the next week and all was fine.Check the laws in your state, a lot of times laws like this are not known about until you check into it. I know a guy here that new these laws but still bought titles from the place ya'll have been talking about here, because it saved a little time and paperwork. Wonder what he will do now? Better to try all legal ways first than to get caught like this.

 

Slickster.....on a chevy of that vintage, a title shows a serial number which matches the motor number, nothing else! if you have a true 32 chevy title, the only thing they have to match would be an original motor. so i'm assuming you changed the the motor...haha...you wouldn't be able to match numbers. The cowl tag only showed the model, color.....nothing on it would match on the title...your safe.

Have your buddy get another 'paper' drag it up to Milwaukee, i'll register it for him and then 'sell' it to him....

 

I will talk to him and see if i can get him to change his mind about parting it out and see if i cant't reason with him cause he was all burned out and was flakin bout how its not worth all the bs if he builds it the way they want then he dont want it and that whole gig he's pretty sure the worlds against himHe feels like all that work for nothin you know.But thanks for the info on my 32 ya i have a 61 283 all built for the car now and as far as a body tag it didnt have one when i got it nor did the guy at the body shop have a title i handed him 1500 cash and i hauled the car home sold the stock parts that i did get and started builin a hotrod.

 

Sell it for a dollar to a reliable friend in Indiana who, with a bag full of receipts (for major components) can obtain an "assembled vehicle" title. Once done buy it back with the Indiana title and go pay whatever fees IL wants.

 

I put that signature down there because there was a picture i seen of a church sign that said this and as far as tattoos go im covered in them so i honestly found it pretty amusing to know that a church thinks that if i have tattoos that im going to hell.There for "beep beep my ass" sounds pretty gay to me but hey thats my opinion and i look at it like this opinions are like assholes everyones got one so if you can't take a little criticsm then i guess none of us should be here. Like i said earlier im not here to piss anyone off im just here to hang out with some pretty cool people that have alot of the same views on hotrods that i do and i thought thats what we were all here for a community to help each other out and have a little fun.

 

Thats what i am trying to do is convince him to c if we can find a way around this and find someone he knows and trust to title it out of state so he don't have to get rid of i.

 

SEMA Model Custom Vehicle Legislation Signed into Law in Tennessee

A version of SEMA model legislation to create a vehicle registration and titling classification for custom vehicles (including kit cars and replicas) was approved by the Tennessee State Legislature and signed into law by Governor Phil Bredesen. The new law defines a custom-built car as a vehicle that is built for private use and is not constructed by a licensed manufacturer or remanufacturer. Under the law, kit cars and replica vehicles will be assigned a certificate of title bearing the same model year designation as the production vehicle it most closely resembles.

In signing the bill into law Governor Bredesen said, “I view this as a responsible, proactive way for enthusiasts to register their vehicles in a safe and controlled manner.”

Congratulations to all of you for contributing to this successful effort!

this was posted on the hamb awhile back.

 

I guess I don't get it (buying titles or registrations). Here in Michigan applying for a title is a matter of filling out some papers & having a sheriff or deputy physically look at the car and especially the VIN tag to make sure it's not been altered. I had one done in '72 or '73 on an abandoned car. It was a shell, sitting on blocks. John Law ran the #s to check for claims (none), about 2 weeks later I got a title for the car, it cost like $15. No inspection, nothing except having possession and no wants on the VIN.

 

If you don't get it, move to a state that has a statute like: "No new title will be issued unless an previous title or title number is provided".

Some states, you are doomed without a title.

 

Here in Pennsylvania I got a reconstructed street rod title from the state legally. Fiberglass body, new frame etc. I had to pay sales tax on all receipts for parts not purchased in the state. Then took it to an enhanced PA. inspection station to check for all safety items. It turned out the title application turned out to be cheaper than buying an illegal title.




Ago

 

I bought a 1927 T Roadster NY title from the guy in question here. Fortunately, the CHP inspector is a hot rodder and he pretended that he never saw the title. Walked me through the bonded title process. Used an Alabama title 15 years ago, however, Colorado DMV offices probably know more about title scams then anyone on the HAMB and no longer take out of state titles on their secret list!

 

We don't know all of the facts here. However, here is some information: first of all, NY was not a title state until some 20-odd years ago. Prior to titles in NY, cars were registered only. To transfer ownership you signed the back of your registration slip and wrote out a bill of sale. That's it. To this day in NY, you register pre-title cars that way, and they don't have titles.

Now, perhaps this setup allows a shady character to work a scheme. Every one of these old cars had bunches of registrations over the years - each year, they were renewed. Since the registration is not the same as a title, it is possible for one car to have many old registrations. An unscrupulous person could 'sell' the same car many times. Even if the car were scrapped, it is possible (under this old system) for the NYS DMV to never know about it, because there were very loose requirements to 'end' a registration, and basically they just died a natural death.

So, now, years later someone needs to register or title a rod. They call some guy who has a bunch of old registration slips. He signs it over, makes out a bill of sale for $1, and presto you are now the 'owner' of that car - a car that might not have existed for many years. You stamp that number on your frame, title it in your own state, and everything's cool - most of the time. But, what if that car still exists and is registered somewhere under that same serial number? Or, what if additional copies of the registration for that same car were sold to different people? Well, then, you end up with more than one car on the road with the same VIN, and that gets most state DMV's a bit upset. Nowadays with computers and a high degree of reciprocity among DMV's in various states, it is easier to end up in a bind. I presume that this is what happened to your friend.

The good news is that all states have mechanisms for you to legally register or title a home-built car. These vary, so you need to investigate them. I once titles a home-built car in Texas; at the time I had to stamp my own number on the frame, have a State Trooper come out to look at the number, and then he signed a piece of paper stating that he had done so - the Texas DMV then issued me a title. Other states have different rules. Be prepared to have to produce evidence that the components you used were not stolen. Usually, this means having receipts for the major components like engine, tranny and frame.

If you think about it, there is still a lot of latitude so it is ludicrous to think that any individual is s#*t out of luck. You might be inconvenienced, and you might have to scramble a bit, but there is always a way - a legal way. Pay no attention to the wonks on the phone (like the lady from the Dept of State referenced above). Why would you expect them to be fully informed about the nuances of the arcane regulations surroundng the regiostration of a home-built vehicle? And even if they were, why would you imagine that they would be reasonable or objective in dealing with you?

Never admit anything and don't make their jobs easier by giving them information that makes their investigation easier. If you stole parts, you deserve to be locked up. If you were simply clumsy about the way in which you registered your rod, or if you were victimized by someone who was operating as described above - well, then so what? No one was hurt and all you have to do is figure out what your state really needs, and then figure out a way of complying with that.

One last note - home-builts are, well, home-built. You are not an automobile manufacturer, so you do not have to build cars that meet 'all modern requirements' like air-bags. The woman who said that was an air bag. LOL

 

plym49 wrote: "
.....I once titles a home-built car in Texas; at the time I had to stamp my own number on the frame, have a State Trooper come out to look at the number, and then he signed a piece of paper stating that he had done so - the Texas DMV then issued me a title."

How long ago was this? Where did this number come from?

"....One last note - home-builts are, well, home-built. You are not an automobile manufacturer, so you do not have to build cars that meet 'all modern requirements' like air-bags..."

I had heard this before too and would like to see it written. There is an overwhelming amount of information on TxDOT, but so far I haven't found anything to support what she was saying. I hope she is wrong.

Here is my dilemna.

* I built my frame from scratch so I have no frame number.
* The 28/29 Ford truck cab I have had a Texas issued number plate on it. A phone call to Austin and the lady I spoke with TxDOT shows this number is now registered with a 56 Ford, but I still have the plate. This is confusing too because registrations are only kept 15 years I believe is what she said. They re-issue these numbers?

* The old man I bought the cab died not long after I bought it. I had a bill of sale...somewhere. (this was 18 years ago, young and dumb, and I just didn't give it much thought, plus I didn't do anything with the cab for 15 years.)

I have held off doing much work at all to the cab. What I have done I could easily unbolt in case I did run into a problem. I am waiting till I get it straightened out before I put any work into it. No reason to slow down on the rest of it though.

 

Here is my understanding of what you would do. This is from memory, Texas regs might have changed, so check it out.

The home built frame is not a problem. You get to decide what number you want to put on it. I copied the number from the motor I was using. I stamped the number right onto the frame.

Those tags are irrelevant. Just nail them on the wall in your garage. Bodies do not have numbers or VINs or license plates. It is probaly irrelevant that you misplaced the bill of sale for that item. If you end up needing one, just get a letter stating the fact that you purchased it 18 years ago - include two witnesses who will attest that you have had posession since then.

Remember to the DMV a 1928 vehicle has a book value of maybe $5. They don't care. They DO care about paperwork fraud, cars with the same numbers, things like that.

 

why in the hell would you buy a title when you can register a car the legal. i just did a 1960 scout no title. had a notirized bill of sale took it to mvd for vin# inspection then went to my insurance agent for a bond, back to mvd for title and license all in one day for a total cost of $150.00

 

"If you don't get it, move to a state that has a statute like: "No new title will be issued unless an previous title or title number is provided".Some states, you are doomed without a title."
and

Good point, guess that's what I didn't "get". While there may be some states that can get pricky about this stuff, best thing to do is check with the Secty of State or DMV first when trying to get a title or proof of ownership. Most govt agencies likely have, or will find a way to assist, especially if there's something in it for them (fees, $$$$ )

 

IL Motor Vehicle Code can be found here:
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilc...eqEnd=58800000&ActName=Illinois+Vehicle+Code.



An interpretation without the legalese can be found here:
http://www.dmv.org/il-illinois/custom-built-cars.php

Illinois
Custom-built cars follow a more complicated process for titling and registration than do ordinary cars and trucks. In many cases, these cars are reproductions of older antique models, also known as kit cars. Others are cars that were either heavily modified or built from scratch from parts.
These unique cars are classed three different ways: as custom vehicles, street rods, or specially constructed vehicles.
Custom Vehicles

To be classified as a custom vehicle, your car must be all of the following:

• At least 25 years old but newer than 1948, or a replica of such a vehicle.

• Altered from the manufacturer's original design or has a body constructed from nonoriginal materials.

• Used only for occasional transportation, exhibitions, club activities, parades, tours, and similar uses.

• Not used for general daily transportation.

<!-- end state banner --><!-- begin state info module -->Street Rods

A street rod is different from a "custom vehicle" in that it is older. A street rod is defined as a vehicle that is all of the following:

• Built in 1948 or older, or a replica of such a vehicle.

• Has been altered from the manufacturer's original design or has a body constructed from nonoriginal materials.

• Used only for occasional transportation, exhibitions, club activities, parades, tours, and similar uses.

• Not used for general daily transportation.

Registration Process

Custom-built vehicles and street rods follow the same registration processes. You'll need to provide documentation of where the vehicle came from by supplying one of the following that shows the VIN (vehicle identification number) for the body of the vehicle:

• A certificate of origin from the manufacturer of the body.

• If not from a kit, then a title for the vehicle from which the body came.

• If you don't have a title or certificate of origin, provide bills of sale.

• Completed certification by a National Street Rod Association (NSRA) inspector (see bottom of article).

You'll also need to document the source and VINs of the engine and chassis. The Vehicle Services Department gives more details about the documents needed to register your vehicle.
Send all the documentation to:

• Illinois Secretary of State

• Department of Police

• Salvage Inspection Station

• 2719 S. 11th St.

• Springfield, IL 62793

Don't be surprised if you are asked to bring the vehicle to a police station for inspection before a title or registration will be issued. You may need to show all the receipts for the vehicle or its components to prove that there are no stolen parts. The department will contact you to schedule an appointment if an inspection is needed.
Instead of the above process, owners of custom vehicles and street rods may opt to use the process for registering a specially constructed vehicle, described below.
Specially Constructed Vehicles

A vehicle is considered specially constructed if it's a type that is normally required to be registerd and either of the following apply:

• It has been materially altered from its original construction by the removal, addition, or substitution of essential parts.

• It was not originally constructed under a distinctive name by a generally recognized manufacturer of vehicles.

Registration Process

This process differs from the one above. You'll need to provide the following:

• Three photos of the completed vehicle showing front, side, and rear views.

• Title for the chassis and all bills of sale or other ownership documents for any essential parts of the vehicles, or a certificate of origin from the manufacturer if the vehicle was assembled entirely from a kit.

• Completed title (or title and registration) application.

• Check made out to the Secretary of State for $65 (title only) or $143 (title and registration).

• Sales tax form with a check made out to the Illinois Department of Revenue for the amount of sales tax due.

Send all the documentation to:

• Illinois Secretary of State

• Department of Police

• Salvage Inspection Station

• 2719 S. 11th St.

• Springfield, IL 62793

This process requires an inspection; the department will contact you to schedule one.
Since the titling and registration process is complicated, we recommend that you consult the Vehicle Services Department for more detailed information.
Scheduling an NSRA Inspection

To arrange for a National Street Rod Association inspection, contact the following people:

• North of Illinois Route 17: Bob Jackson, (630) 553-9036

• South of Illinois Route 17: Dennis Yarnik, (618) 635-375

Hope this helps......