Someone on the hamb mentioned that STP oil treatment contains zinc. Is that a known fact? If so I see it as an easy cure for our old flat tappet engines. Just buy whatever major brand oil Wallyworld has on sale a little thinner than you want and add a can of STP. Does anybody know for sure that STP does contain enough zinc to help the older engines? Gary
Just pick up some ZDDP sold everywhere. Replentishes the good stuff so you can run whatever oil you'd like in your old whale.
Based on a published report that I saw, both the red and blue STP is high in ZDDP (red a little better). Recommended for oil with a SM rating. Better yet, use a diesel oil like Shell Rotella T 15/40. Even the new formula is better than most of the older oil we always used with no problems. Most any diesel oil is good, the CI formula the best but the CJ is okay too. The CI may be hard to find, but Castrol still has it as far as I know.
From the STP web site: Blue heps protect engine wear with a high viscosity formula. Red also helps protect engine wear by increasing oil viscosity, blah blah blah, optimized for 4 cylinder engines. No mention of ZDDP anywhere (interesting since it appears to be on the bottle) and I'm not sure we are looking to increase viscocity levels which can decrease flow to vital engine parts. The zinc levels in diesel oils has been decreased in the last year or so. It is generally acknowledged that a level of .11% or more (roughly equal to 1100ppm) is more than adequate. Mobil 1 15-50 gold top and silver top are both approx. 1200-1300ppm. The other place to look is Harley Davidson oils. Harley's being air cooled with roller bearing bottom ends require a high level of ZDDP to survive and most Harley oils meet this requirement. Little more expensive, most petroleum oils are $3.50 to $6.00 Qt and Synthetics are $9.00 to 11.00 qt. but the quality is definitely there. I used to work for a major Harley aftermarket supplier and our lubricants were made by Silkolene, the largest maker of powersports oils in the world. I spent a lot of time with one of the Petro engineers on this subject and came away with the belief that the GOOD Harley intended oils were far superior to auto oils. Biker's Choice, Mobile 1, BelRay all very high quality with superior additive packages. Many 20-50 car oils still have high ZDDP levels as they do not fall under the government guidelines that require the lower levels. JMHO after extensive sifting through the marketing BS
Note from Isky: Motor Oil Warning!! Important message regarding "break-in" protection for all high performance flat-tappet hydraulic and solid lifter camshafts. Not all motor oils are created equal. Unfortunately, when installing a high performance camshaft, just any oil will not give your new cam installation sufficient protection during the critical break-in period (the mating-in of virgin metal surfaces). This is because government regulators have mandated (as of January '04) the complete elimination of the critical anti-wear additive package (zinc/phosphorus) from all "SM" rated (street legal) motor oils to protect catalytic converters. Isky recommends the use of only the following motor oils for maximum cam lobe and lifter protection before and after the break-in period because they are the only conventional mineral based oils available with generous levels of the zinc/phosphorous additive package: Brad Penn Penn-Grade 1 **The very best of all in our opinion and the only oil refined from 100% Pennsylvania crude. ( The Hot Rod Company sells Brad Penn oil ). Pennzoil "GTP" Racing Oil (Excellent- Do not confuse with regular grade of Pennzoil). Valvoline Racing Oil (Excellent- Do not confuse with regular grades of Valvoline or Valvoline VR-1). **Because we believe the Brad-Penn product (formerly known as Kendall GT-1) to be superior to all other oils, we have enclosed a product brochure for your convenience. If you do not use one of the above oils, the next best approach is to supplement other common mineral based oils with ROS (Engine Oil Supplement) available from any GM Dealership. Ask for Part No. 1052367 (16 oz) bottle. It is mandatory to use the EOS for break-in and recommended for every oil change thereafter. The cost is about $9.00 per bottle. EOS contains a generous amount of zinc and phosphorous and will give whatever other motor oil you may be using a boost in protection against premature cam failure. "Special Note Regarding Synthetic Oils** Please note, Isky does not recommend the use of synthetic oils with any flat- tappet camshaft-especially during break-in. If you must use synthetic oil after break-in, there are only two brands we are comfortable recommending. They are Amzoil (Red) Racing Oil and Joe Gibbs Performance Racing Oil. Both contain zinc and phosphorous and will fare well AFTER break-in has been successfully completed. Other synthetics, especially those with very low viscosity index numbers (i.e. Ow-15, 5w-20 etc.) have very low film strength and arc not designed for, nor should they be employed in any flat-tappet cam installation. Even when you employ the correct oil, remember that camshafts receive no direct-pressurized lubrication to their cam lobes and therefore depend on the foggy mist or "splash" off the connecting rods for survival. Therefore when getting ready to start the motor up, remember to immediately rev to 2500 RPM and keep it there for the first 15-20 minutes of operation. Also, be sure the ignition is timed properly and fuel is in the, carburetor bowl to avoid excessive cranking on the starter and pre-disposing your cam's installation to a high risk of premature wear. ED ISKENDERIAN RACING CAMS 16020 S. BROADWAY BOX 30 GARDENA, CALIFORNIA 90247-9990 (323) 770-0930 FAX (310) 515-5730 www.iskycams.com
They think Kendal GT-1 is superior to all other oils??? I destroyed a motor once by running that stuff. By the time the motor died it was so full of gunk that it looked like someone had taken a grease gun to the insides of the motor! I'd run vasolene before I'd run Kendall oil ever again.
Check out www.zddplus.com An Alliance vendor sells it here, Eastwood sells it, Drive magazine has an ad for it, Chev's of the 40's sells it. Run bargin box auto parts store oil with this product and you are good to go.
info from Royal Purple - API SM oils are capped at 800 ppm of zddp , API SL oils contain 1100 ppm zddp, RP 10W-40 and 15W-40 (which are rated for diesel) contain 1300 ppm zddp, and thier XPR oils contain 1800ppm zddp (also about $16.00/quart). For my 354 hemi (street engine) they recommended RP10W-40. Take this info for want you want, just thought I would pass it along.
Read closely; they believe Brad Penn is the best oil - that is the OLD Kendall. Conoco-Phillips bought the Kendall NAME several years ago & Kendall oil is no longer any good...or even green for that matter.
From what I understand, American Refining Group just kept making the old Kendall oil with a new name (Brad Penn) - same refinery, same petro-chemists, same additive packages, same green oil.
No - Shell is a completely different manufacturer! Just funnin! Yeah - Conoco-Phillips only wanted the Kendall name, so ARG kept right on making good oil with a new name.
I second this but would urge you to look at all types of motorcycle oils. None of them fall under the gvt. regs. you are worrying about. I just researched motorcycle oils and decided to put Royal Purple MC oil in my 73 Bonneville. It is loaded with zinc etc. and surpassed most all other MC oils in a common friction test involving placing load on ball bearings bathed in the oil being tested. But there were other very good, high scoring oils, that don't cost the arm and a leg that RP does. Check it out.
Don't use STP in any engine you place any value in. I have torn down several over the yrs. because that stuff plugged the pickup screen, and usually the knocking of the main bearings was the customers first clue. Stuff would be hanging all over inside the engine like syrup or honey. I have always used Super EOS sold by GM, and some autoparts stores.
i only run brad-penn in mine.there oil has more zddp than any other oil that i have found.i did run out last year and put reg.oil and some comp-cams oil add.in it.but why pay 12-19$ for add.when you can buy oil with it in it for less than 3$ quart?
Here's a forum dedicated to motor oils http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/ 31,000 members discuss motor oil and which one is best.Lots of the usual stories " I used Pennzoil and had to chisel the sludge out of the pan with a fucking axe." Or " I used Pennzoil for years and ran my engine for 350,000 miles at 70 mph with 4.88 rear gears." But there is a ton of stuff to read supported by actual facts and tests.
Great old thread. Just read that Comp Cams is now making oil! http://autoculture.org/?p=1566 From our pals at Autoblog.
I have been adding about a half pint of STP to every oil change with Havoline 10W30 since the zinc scare..This is a flat tappet 383 Mopar and have never had any problems. The engine has 30K miles since last complete rebuild. Never noticed any sludge problems. I feel it is cheap insurance....as a sidebar - had a friend that was in a meeting at Indy years back and some clown asked Granatelli "has Stp ever helped anyone?"...Granatelli snapped back "hell yes, it made me rich!" Seriously, I've been using it at about a half jug per 5 quarts for years and it may be in my mind - but I've always been pleased..
The Jalopy Journal
