I have the opportunity to pick up a decent 1964 Catalina with a 389 and what the owner is claiming, an AT that needs rebuilding. My research reveals that it should have the "Slim Jim" Roto Hydramatic 375 and not the Jetaway. Research also reveals such trannys leak like newborn babies and are mega-$$$ to rebuild. Opinions vary on whether or not they are a good tranny. Wilcap or somebody has an adapter I am sure to put a TH350/TH400 on the 389 I am sure, but at a cost that almost makes it worth rebuilding the Slim Jim after getting the adapter, mini starter, cables, and a Turbo Hydro. IMPORTANT: I have read that the 1964 389 blocks had a provision for bolting the starter to the block instead of directly to the Skinny James. IS THIS TRUE? Can I get a confirmation of that? If so, then I could use the later BOP TH350/TH400? Your knowledge and reply is greatly appreciated. I have not been to see the car yet but from 20 feet away it looks good. I'm thinking it would make a great kustom and needs the love of my garage.
I owned a 64 Grand Prix, One of the best cars Ive ever had. Sorry I don't have Info for you but they are great rides. If it hadn't been totaled in a wreck I would still have it. Mine did leak but I replaced the oil, filter, gasket and seals and it was great for me. It had a console shift and was hard to get used to at first. Buy it if its complete and not rusty. If worst comes to worst pick up a 400 with a tranny and throw it in. Its a cruiser either way they are heavy.
Yes both my 64 389's have the starter provision on the block. One I have a th 350 bolted to it and the other a th400 no adapter is needed with a bop trans.
check out " Performance Years catalog " tech links for any thing you need to about any year Poncho!!!!! You owe me bro
In my estimation, you have about a 60/40 chance of your 64 block having a starter pad. Your best bet is to crawl under the drivers side and feel around. Starter pad or not, you should buy it. Those are kick ass cars. Kinda hard to tell from the pic, does it have 8 lugs?? Nice to see you around, by the way. -Abone.
I think Rod & Custom had an article abojut converting to overdrives and one of the featured cars was a 389 Pontiac. the owner put in a 200R4 with a junkyard driveshaft from a Cadillac. had to "massage" the trans tunnel, as the slimJim is rather small. a T350 might need less/more work to install.
Yeah, it's been a while ain't it? I'm waiting for a message back from the owner as to when I can see it. If it is straight, I'll probably buy it. It's a catalina so I doubt it.
Every '64 block I've seen had provisions for a block mounted starter, so you should be okay. For reference, there are some pictures of a TH400 swap into a '63 Pontiac on the Full Size Pontiac Club website, at http://www.fullsizepontiacs.com/fsptech.htm (scroll down about half way on the page.) If you go with a TH400 you may have some clearance issues with the transmission tunnel - some people claim it will fit with no problem but any conversion I've seen needed at least some massaging with a sledge hammer, and more likely there may be some cutting and welding required. A TH350 will probably fit better. 1961-1964 Bonnevilles had a larger transmission tunnel so they're easier to convert.
I put a 700r4 into my 64 ratalina. Drop the starter and make sure the bolt holes are in the block first. I ordered a flywheel and starter for a 64 gto and an adapter plate.A little massaging on the tunnel and the crossmember and you're in.
I have heard that early 64 blocks had trans mounted starters whereas the later ones were block mounted. You can do the research and check vin/engine #s to see if it is later block mounted starters or: Get on your back and get a telescoping inspection mirror and flashlight and look under the drivers side for two bolts that are at bottom of starter (near the trans side of starter) with bolt head pointing down. If the bolts are there it is block mounted starter. You may also try and spot horizontal bolts at starter which look to be mounted to transmission from the engine compartment. Any way you look at it the th400 (Pontiac) may be the best way to go. The 700r4 and 2004r transmissions would have to be from BBP block for drivers side starter.
Reet. I kind of figured that was how it would have been done as I sincerely doubt that GM would make a one year only bellhousing for a trans that was being phased out. I agree, I'd rather not mess with the Slim Jim.
It's an early '64 block, shoot. Is there anyone besides Wilcap that makes an adapter? $500 seems a bit tall.
So you checked and there aren't any bolt holes in the block? Bendtsen's makes an adapter, but I think it's just as expensive as the Wilcap. It would be more work, but you could look for a '65 or newer 389 or 400 engine and drop that in. If you look around you should be able to find one in decent running condition for less than $500.
No, I asked the guy about the starter he had for it and he said the bolts go in horizontally instead of vertically.
Here is what the owner said about the Roto Hydramatic in the car: "The tranny leaks a ton. It pours fluid. When the tranny is full of fluid and at operating temperature with the shift linkage properly adjusted it works good." Sounds like it is a matter of seals? Where could tranny fluid "pour" out? Is there a draft tube or something on a Slim Jim?
You may be able to make a very thin adapter out of sheet metal that would accomodate the starter and have some studs welded to it that mate with the starter. You can then make a support bracket for the starter that would bolt to back of starter and to some mounting hole convenient on the block. I wouldn't think 1/16" thick difference would hurt the converter to flexplate. If so you could always make a sheet metal spacer for the crank to flexplate. I wouldn't think it would take much to do that. This is of course if the block still has BOP pattern.
I had the have seals put in my 64 catalina. The owner of the trans shop said that if my stock trans ever tore up, to swap it with a 400. Mine has never given me any trouble but it only had 44k when I bought it. Your indicator on the dash won't be correct if you do a swap. Reverse on a stock trans is in 1st gear position on a gm. no problem though.
That doesn't necessarily there aren't mounting holes in the block, it just means you have a starter that bolts to the transmission. The '64 cars had slim jim transmissions, and the starter bolted to the tranny, but if you pull the starter off and look I'll bet a nickel there are mounting holes in the block, too. If they are there, you get rid of the slim jim, bolt up a later transmission, and get a later starter and bolt it to the block.
Yeah, I believe you Stuart, the more I look into this the more I find that the Catalina could end up in my garage. Right now it is competing with a 64 Galaxie, stiff competition. Did you see the other thread I put up about 389's?
I looked at your pics of the bare 389 block and do see one of the bolt holes for the block mounted starter, but where is the other? Could Pontiac drill the hole as needed for 64? Hmmm, Looking at Willcap and Bendtsens websites is a bit confusing: Wilcap adapters are for 61-63, whereas Bendtsen adapters are for 61-64. Strange. In any event, if the starter is mounted to the trans, you should still be able to see, via the inspection mirror, the starter bolt holes in the block.
I tore apart a '64 Gran Prix a while back for a clown who wanted parts then dissapeared into the night. The block has the starter ear on it, but the starter bolts to the trans. I haven't pulled it apart any further, but if it has the ear, it either has holes drilled that need to be tapped, or you need to have the holes added. Depending on how you do that it's liable to be more labor than an adapter, but how much can it cost to have two holes drilled and machined? I think you could do the mirror thing from the top of the car and not even get dirty, I could see the ear from the top of the car. Examine the frame real close under the rear seat area of the car, that's where they're really rot prone. Mine was rotted right through ahead of the suspension mounts on the left side only, even though the car had decent floors and while every panel on the body had some rot, it wasn't too terrible, all of them could have been saved if someone had wanted to. I know you don't get our road salt in Texas, but you do have a coastline not too far away and being in the sea air isn't much different. As mentioned, you may have to alter the trans tunnel for another transmission. You can make one, or get one from a Bonneville or some other car and weld in. The only advantage of the Bonneville pan is you can then go buy a carpet that fits it. Oh yeah, and I have a bunch of loose parts from that Gran Prix to get rid of, I have an ad up in the classified with a good list of them if anyone needs anything.
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