Request help - 4 lug to 5 lug conversion - falcon

I have been doing some reading and I am quickly realizing that the 62 Falcon and earlier Falcons have a different set up them the post 63 and doing a 5 lug swap is not as straight forward. I am reading i have to go with different A arms and all other parts (most from a 65 Mustang with some granada parts).

Anyone on here with a 60 to 62 Falcon do the conversion. Could use some detailed help on this one so I know what parts to look for


thanks

 

I've done it before its not too hard if you find the right parts. you will need the a arms from either a granada of a 5 lug stang pre 67 get the a arms and spindle they should bolt right in then just install the rest of you brakes you will need to upgrade your master cylinder if you are going to disks the granadas master can be made to work but you will need to run some new lines. if you got everything its like a 3 hour job.

 

The issue with the 60-62 Falcons and swapping on later v8 suspension is the size of the ball joints, tie rod ends, etc. The 6 banger stuff is ALOT smaller.

Basically, as far as the sources said above, that works great on a 63-65 Falcon.
On the earlier ones you need to swap out the center link, tie rods, pitman and idler arms, springs, and possibly the steering box.
Its been a while, so I don't recall everything.

And as I remember, some of the Mustang stuff did not fit. The arms and such do... I always used V8 Falcon parts, so I never had many issues.

All the V8 stuff is bolt on, so no cutting is necessary. Even with the Granada disc swap.

Pretty straight forward and it can be done in a few hours.

 

It might be a LOT less expensive to just buy a extra set of drums and hubs for the front and have them redrilled. Same for the rear ... or just take the Falcon off the road while you ship the stuff to be redrilled.

 

My 63 lower "A" arms are not A arms at all, they are just straight pieces. I do have a V8 in it, and everything seems good. I did not do the conversion, so I am not sure what spindles were used. I am looking at ways to make a better front end, including but not limited to the M II front end conversion. Just a thought...

 

No not really, the Falcon front flanges are square, no room for a 5 bolt pattern.

I think you can take 5-bolt disc brakes off a Ford Grenada if I remember correctly. Search the Falcon forums, the swap is quite common.

 

Thats what my friend did, it cost him $80 at the machine shop. Much easier and far less ********.

 

For your tyrod ends well in Australia at least, I think early are 5/8th late are 11/16th thread. Run the smaller tap over the later larger outer tyrod ends and shorten the length about 20mm. This gives you the larger ball joint for the stub axle while keeping all the original steering arms, we just did on a mates XP Falcon but that is 65. Or get a tapered reamer and ream the drag link then you can use shortened late model tyrod ends. Double check the sizes as working off a bad memory. Lowsquire might be of more help.

 

If you have room to drill for 5 lugs, you'll find that the 4 1/2" four lug pattern will have to be plugged due to one or two of the holes on the four lug pattern will be partially in the way of the new five lug 4 1/2" pattern.

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This may help.


#studs/BC STUD SIZE COMMON APPLICATION

5 x 4.5" 1/2" Older Full size Ford & Chrysler Products
5 x 4.75" 7/16" Chevy Camero & Most Older Full Size Chevrolet
5 x 5" 5/8" Grand National & Most Older Full-Size GM Cars
5 x 5.5" 1/2" 1/2 Ton Ford Pickups, Most Jeeps, & International Scouts
6 x 5.5" 7/16" Older Model Chevy & GM Pickups, Some Late Blazer & Datsun
8 x 6.5" 1/2" All 8 Hole 3/4 Ton Trucks
5 x 7.75" 5/8" Old Wide 5 Hole Volkswagen
5 x 10.25" 5/8" Modified 37 Ford, Skeleton or Wide 5 Pattern
6 x 5" 6-Pin Sprint Car 5/8 Drive Pin
6 x 5" 6-Pin Midget 1/2" Drive Pin
4 x 98mm Fiat
4 x 100mm Chevy Chevette, Plymouth K-Car, Isuzu, & Renault
5 x 100mm All GM A, J, & X Body Front Wheel Drive some Mopar
4 x 4" Vega & GM '80 & Older Skyhawk, Starfire, Astro & Sunbird
5 x 4" Plymouth Duster, Scamp, Valiant, Dodge, "A" Body Mopar
4 x 4.25" Pinto, T-Birds, Other Ford Small Cars, Some Porsche
4 x 110mm Some Renault & Mazdas
4 x 4.5" Older Mustangs & Capri 6 Cyl, Some Datsun, MG, Mazda & Toyota
4 x 120mm Some Mazda & Honda
4 x 130mm Volkswagen & Some Porsche
4 x 140mm Subaru
5 x 6.5" Land Rover

5 Bolt Wheels

5 on 100mm (3.937")
Buick - Century, Skylark, Skyhawk FWD '79-'87
- LeSabre, Riviera, Somerset '85-'88
Chevrolet - Beretta, Citation, Cavalier, Celebrity, Corsica
'80-'89
Chrysler - Laser, Lebaron '85-'87
Dodge - Daytona, Aries, Charger, Lancer, Caravan '85-'89
Oldsmobile - Calais, Ciera, FWD '82-'87
- Firenza, Omega FWD '79-'86
Plymouth - Sundance '87-'89
Pontiac - 6000, Grand Am, J2000, Sunbird, etc. FWD '82-'87
- Fiero '82-'88

5 on 4 (101.6 mm)
'64-'69 Mopar "A" 13"
'65-'76 Mopar "A" 14"
Dodge - Aspen, Dart, Demon, ******* (w/o discs) '63-'72Plymouth - Barracuda, Duster, Valiant (w/o discs) '61-'74

5 on 4-1/4 (108 mm)
Volvo 140, 164 15"
Volvo - all to '89
Ford - T-Bird '89

5 on 112mm (4.409")
Audi - 5000 Turbo, Quattro '86-'87
Mazda - RX7 GSL '86-'87
Mercedes - all '77-'89
VW - Transporter, Vanagon '71-'89

5 on 4-1/2 (114.3 mm)
AMC Gremlin, Hornet, Pacer, Javelin, Matator, AMX
AMC - most models (exc. Jeep) '40-'89
Chrysler/DeSoto - all full size RWD cars (exc. Imperial) '37-'89
Datsun/Nissan - 1600-2000 '65-'73
- 300ZX, 200SX V6 (some) to '89
Dodge van
Dodge 1/2 ton P.U.
Dodge - all full size cars & P.U.'s '37-'89
- Dart, Demon, ******* '73-'80
Ford 1/2 ton van
Ford Granada, Monarch
Ford - All full size cars '49-'72; '79-'85
- Fairlane '62-'79
- T-Bird '55-'71; '77-'79
- Mustang 5-bolt '65-'73
- Maverick 5-bolt all
- Mustang SVO '85-'86
- Ranchero '68-'84
- Aerostar, Probe, Bronco II/Ranger to '89
Hudson - all '48-'56
Lincoln - all '70-'72; '80-'89
Mazda - RX7 Turbo, 626, 929, MX6 '86-'89
Mercury - all full size cars '52-'54; '61-'72; '79-'85
- Cougar '67-'79
Mopar '73-up "A" body
Plymouth - all full size cars '37-'89
- Barracuda '70-'74
- Duster, Valiant, Volare '73-'80
Pontiac - Tempest, LeMans '61-'63
Studebaker - all '51-'66
Toyota Crown, Hilux P.U.Toyota - 2WD P.U. '69-'89
- Supra Turbo '86-'89
Volvo 122, 1800

5 on 115mm (4.527")
Buick - Century, Electra, LeSabre, Regal, Riviera (some) '83-'89
Cadillac - Allante, most others '84-'89
Chevrolet - Celebrity '85-'89
Oldsmobile - Regency, Ciera, Cutl***, Delta 88 '84-'89
Pontiac - 6000 '83-'89
- Bonneville, Grand Am '86-'89

5 on 120mm (4.72")
BMW 2500, 2800, 3.0, 520, 530, 630, 730
BMW - all 5 bolt to '89

5 on 4-3/4 (120.6 mm)
Buick - Regal, Century, Special (most mid-size) '64-'80's
Chevy van
Chevrolet - all (exc. as noted elsewhere) '49-'89
Corvette all
Corvair '65-'69 5-bolt
GM compact and midsize
Oldsmobile - 442, Cutl***, F-85, Toronado
(most mid-size) '60's-'80's
Pontiac - GTO, LeMans, Firebird, Grand Prix
(mid size) '64-'80's

5 on 5 (127 mm)
Austin-Healy 3000
Buick LeSabre, Centurion, Riviera, Electra
Buick - Electra, LeSabre, Riviera, (most full-size) '35-'87
Cadillac - DeVille, Fleetwood '38-'89
- SeVille '77-'79
Chevrolet 3/4 ton vans
Chevrolet - Bel Air, Biscayne, Impala, Caprice, Kingswood '71-'76
- above w/HD package wagons '77-'89
- Blazer 2WD '71-'83
Chrysler - Imperial '67-'71
Ford, LTD '73-'75
Ford - T-Bird '72-'76
- Galaxie, LTD, Custom '73-'78
Lincoln - all (exc Versailles) '60-'67; '73-'79
Mercury - all '55-'60
- Cougar, XR7 '73-'77Oldsmobile - all full size RWD '40-'87
Packard - all '51-'55
Pontiac - all full size RWD '40-'86
Rover

5 on 130mm (5.118")
Porsche - 911, 912, 944 to '89

5 on 5-1/2 (139.7 mm)
AMC - Jeep (5 bolt) '42-'89
Chrysler - 8 cyl. & wagon '46-'55
- Imperial '54-'66
Ford 2 ton van
Ford Bronco, F100
Ford - all '28-'48
- full size P.U., van, Bronco '49-'89
International Scout, Travelall
Lincoln - all '52-'60
Mercury - all '39-'51
Suzuki - Samurai '86-'89


4 Bolt Wheels

4 on 3-3/4 (95.2 mm)
Austin Marina
Triumph Spitfire, TR7
Lotus

4 on 98mm (3.858")
Alfa Romeo Alfetta
FIAT
Lancia

4 on 100mm (3.93")
Acura - Integra to '89
Audi - most models to '89
Audi Fox
BMW 1600, 2002
BMW - 2002, 300-series to '89
Chevy - Chevette '76-'87
- Spectrum, Nova '80-'89
Dodge - Omni, Rampage, Aries, 024 '79-'85
- Charger, Daytona (FWD) '82-'89
Honda - all (except '76-'80 Accord, Civic) to '89Isuzu - Impulse, I-Mark to '89
Nissan - Pulsar, Sentra '87-'89
Opel Kadett
Plymouth - Horizon, TC3, Reliant, Voyager '78-'89
Renault - all to '89
Toyota - Celica, MR2, Tercel '86-'89
VW - Dasher, Fox, Jetta, Rabbit, Scirocco to '89

4 on 4 (101.6 mm)
Austin-Healey Sprite
Crosley - all '39-'52
MG Midget
Jensen Healey
Opel Manta, Kadette, GT
GM L-body
Buick Skyhawk '75-'81
Chevrolet Vega, Monza '71-'81
Pontiac Sunbird, Astre '76-'81
Oldsmobile Starfire '75-'81

4 on 4-1/4 (108 mm)
Alfa Romeo (exc. Alfetta)
Ford - Fairmont '78-'86
- Mustang 4-bolt patterns '74-'93
- T-Bird '80-'88
- Pinto '71-'80
- Fiesta '78-'85
- ****** all (RWD and FWD)
- Cortina all
- Taurus, Tempo, EXP to '89
- German-built Capri I, II, III '69-'8?
Mercury - Capri '71-'88
- Cougar '79-'88
- Merkur, Topaz, Lynx '80-'89
- Zephyr '78-'86
Plymouth Cricket
Porsche - 924 '77-'84
Sunbeam - Tiger, Alpine '65-'70

4 on 110mm (4.33")
Mazda - RX2, RX3, RX4, GLC, 626, P.U. '71-'82
- RX7 to '85

4 on 4-1/2 (114.3 mm)
Acura - Legend '86-'89Buick - Special '61-'63
Chevrolet
Corvair all 4-bolt
Chevy II all 4-bolt
Sprint '85-'87
Nova ('61-'70)
Datsun/Nissan - most models to '89
Dodge Colt '79-'88
Dodge Colt (early)
Ford
Mustang all '65-'68 4-bolt
Falcon, Maverick, Granada all 4-bolt
Mazda - 626, RX7 '83-'87 ????
MGA, MGB, MGC
Olds - F-85 '61-'63
Plymouth - Arrow, Sapporo '79-'88
SAAB all ???
SAAB - 900 to '87
Toyota - most exc. MR2 and P.U. to '89
Triumph TR 1..6

4 on 110mm (4.724")
Honda

4 on 130mm (5.11")
Porsche - 914 '71-'82
VW Beetle, 411, 412, 1500 Sedan, Transporter/Vanagon

 

Very useful info, C9. Thanks very much!

 

I guess I will have to do some more digging. Do not want to waste money on parts I do not need or get so close and then not have what i need. I do not want this project to drag on and hope to have all the pieces in hand before starting.

I would have thought someone on here would have done a 60-62 falcon 5 lug conversion and knew what parts worked.

 

Go here: http://www.route66wingsandwheels.com/forums/


It's our local Kingman, Arizona hot rod website.

Look for a guy named "Double Trouble."

He's very well versed in hot rodding and drag racing and Falcon Rancheros are his specialty, but he knows a lot about Pintos, Mavericks and others in that general area.

He runs a couple of drag race Rancheros with small blocks.
Both streetable, one runs 10's and the other 12's.

Nice guy and he can probably help you.

Tell him Jay with the black 32 roadster sent you....

 

these sites may help a bit:

http://falconparts.com/Manual_Steering_Conversion.htm

http://www.discbrakeswap.com/

www.fordsix.com

 

I did this very swap ... in 1970

I went to Livington's Junk yard up on Rivers Ave. ... ( you know the place ) and bought the entire front end out from under a 63 Falcon Sprint for 50 dollars. Phillip Livington evn let me take the steering column also@ that price.

That was the good ole days ...

 

maverick,comet,granada stuff will get you bolt in 5-lug. lincoln verilles will get you a 9" disc brake rear but spindles require ball joint adaptor. the 62' needs 63' upper A arms for correct ball joint size for the disc upgrade. the falcon forums online cover this swap in detail as i have researched this for my 62' falcon.

 

OK, here's the scoop on the early Falcon swap.
Parts needed:
1) Upper and lower control arms - 1965-6 Mustang V8 or 63 and later Falcon V8
2) Centerlink – 1963-5 Falcon/Comet V-8 ONLY!
3) Spindles – 65-8 Mustang or Falcon V8
4) Rotors - 5 lug Falcon or Mustang V8
5 ) Calipers and pads – same years as above
6) Outer and Inner Tie Rod ends – same years as above
7) Adjusting sleeves – Same years as above
8) Idler arm - 63-5 Falcon V8, 65-6 Mustang V8
9) Pitman arm - 63-5 Falcon V8, 65-6 Mustang V8
10) Lower Control Arm Struts - 63-5 Falcon 6 or V8 - the bolt pattern at the control arm is different that the early stuff. Also if you use 65-6 Mustang Strut bushings they are larger and quieter, plus cheaper than early falcon - you will have to enlarge the frame hole slightly.

Some people also use Grenada spindles and brakes. they lower it about 1/2" but bump steer problems are pretty common so i wouldn't do it.
You can also use 70 Mustang spindles and rotors. they have a beefier bearing.

Hope this helps.

4 lug rear end can be drilled to 5 lug no problem, I have done this

 

The tffn.com has all the info and part nos.

 

The 4 lug spindle is smaller and shorter. I got some Falcon spindles and hubs. Everything is bigger. I found a bearing from napa for the inner that is the correct ID/od. The outer is available from Dixie bearing but its on backorder. I Had a machine shop machine a spacer and set the bearing race 1/16 inch farther back into the hub due tthe shorter spindle. The backing plates will bolt up to the 4 lug spindle. I havent got the hubs back from the machine shop yet but i will post my results. They say you have to swap wverything from the steering box out. I want to prove em wrong.

 

Built a Falcon years ago,with a 283 in it,found that 15" wheels from the old Nash cars would work fine on a stock front end. These were the old fat fender Nashes like the one Lois Lane drove, maybe a fifty or so. You know Lois don't you? These were four lug wheels,the Falcon was a sixty.

 

Got the hubs back . It worked.

 

hotroddon, thanks for the detailed list

thanks for all the info folks

 

If the only difference as far as the upper arms are concerned is the balljoint, just buy joints from a '63 or '64. The tie rod ends and such will probably interchange as well, if not I'm sure someone makes all of those things for mustangs. Then just get spindles and drums from a 'stang like everybody else does for 5-lug. The machine work and such sounds way more complicated and time consuming. I see the spindles and drums at swapmeets all the time, cause all the mustang guys buy aftermarket disc brake setups.

 

they make adapters from 4 lug to 5 used em on an early pinto front suspension in a 4 ford P/U swap one stud is in same place for 4 or 5 lug both have 4 1/2 centers not very hard to redrill the other 4 and push new studs in and use all your stock stuff

 

You have to swap everything, Its all bigger. the tie rods are different too. I bought 4 bearings and had a spacer machined for the outers and i'm rollin. Hows that more complicated than swapping the entire front end?

 

lets see some pic's of your spindles.

 

Who's spindles?

 

55 dude, I do not have mine apart yet, want to have a plan of attack first.

skwurl, will be interesting to see if you set up works. keep track of the part number of those items you got..

 

It works. My wife dorove it all last night

 

I agree, and added a couple of comments. I've done the Grenade swap on my 60 Falcon and 61 Comet. I have Toyota PU wheels (~3" backspacing), and 1" spacers up front.

Thanks,
Kurt

 

Doesn't work. The 4 lug Falcons have a square flange on the hub so you'd be drilling into air.

"If the only difference as far as the upper arms are concerned is the balljoint, just buy joints from a '63 or '64. The tie rod ends and such will probably interchange as well" The larger ball joints don't fit the early arms and the tie rods DO NOT interchange.

I think the reason people have always wanted to swap to the V8 parts is for the same reason Ford did it. The six cylinder stuff was very spindly (pun intended) and was increased in size for the additional loads of the V8 weights, especially when you consider A/C, PS etc. Additionally the Disc brakes have more stopping power adding additional loads and I'm sure that most V8 cars are driven, shall we say, with more spirit than an under powered 6

For the Master Cylinder I use the 1970 Maverick Disc/Drum non power master - works great! Have done 7-8 of them, use em on Hot rods too.