The Horrible is for sale.

Since Ryan won't support the class, I'm out.
The listing is here:

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=301118

 

WTF?? Y'all want him to sponsor you??

Try buildin' one in the People's Republik of Calipornia. We are our own support in this class, that's how it started out and how it has always been. This ain't "Corporate Racing" like the N(o)H(ot)R(ods)A(llowed) runs, this is grass roots drag racing like it used to be.

 

What is it exactly that you think Ryan should be doing?

Brad

 

I'm trying to figure out what support? The rules are fine, excellent guideline for folks trying to fire up a grassroots effort wherever they are. Beyond that, I'm kinda at a loss for what responsibility/support there even could be.

One of the appealing aspects of this, is that we are kinda on our own and what ever becomes of this class - is the same - up to those participating.

Personally, I'm pretty excited. At least 5 people in my area have been reading here and proposing builds to run a small circuit up and down I-65 from KY to AL. All kinds of engines from Buick8's to IH Binders and all the others already found here. Maybe one of those folks will walk off with the Horrible, or one of the other offers around.

The point being: Ryan laid a good foundation, you guys and your builds have fueled the fire, and now the rest of us interested have to help expand it.

 

Man, you just took your potshot at the WRONG target, I don't mark quitters among my crowd.

Acting as a conduit for starting a whole new class in the teeth of prevailing organizations isn't support? Maybe if he'd polish your car for you .........

Find ... another ... excuse.



Rather a shame there's no "freeway social" icon for me to use here.

 

I really do not know what you are talking about.
If Ryan did not support this class, I doubt very seriously that you could post anything on here about it.
Number two, he is one of the ones who pushed this class and got it started and gave it a place to be born.
I really think that a lot of guys do not understand what makes this class and probably never will.
Most of the guys running do understand and most of the guys who are fighting an uphill battle in California definitely understand. The guys who are kicking our ass down under, definitely have a handle on this class.
I am really glad that things in the US are not as tough as they are down under or there probably would not be as many over here as there are.
Now I will shut up and go back to working on mine, trying to get one more second off the 1/4.
Robert

 

1. you are out of line, and calling Ryan out is offensive, and illustrates you're illinformed on the class.
2. I appreciate that things don't always fall into place, and I've got a gut feeling there's more to the picture than you're letting on, but, that's no excuse for your statement
3. I trust someone takes up the opportunity and buys the car, as the flatty deserves a chance to live again.

Cheers,

Drewfus

 

Well, my reasoning is thus:
1. I'd wager 50-75 % of HAMBERS don't know what the class is about. If OUR GUYS don't know about it when we have a semi-captive audience, how is the general public going to find out about the class?
2. With over 25,000 members in HAMB there are less than 30 cars? Where are the other builds?
3. I was not expecting my hand held, but some use of THIS board to spread the word about the format would have been something. Ryan himself wrote about the class how many times in HIS daily column?
4. Why don’t we have a link on the man page instead of being relegated to being the redheaded step-child of the Drags? Out of sight out of mind is my point here.
5. The NHRA has not budged an inch on allowing us to run and shows no sign of doing so. The muscle the HAMB has not been flexed here.
6. If I cannot take the car to an NHRA track I have to drive over 250 miles to race it. How can I get any exposure or other local folks interested so I have some competition in the class?
7. Outside of some curiosity pieces ...has there been a single SERIOUS article in ANY periodical regarding the class? Again, where is the HAMB muscle?
8. The money guys are ALL READY in the game and ruining it for everyone. There have been no signs of enforcing the "spirit of the bug" to limit spending.
9. I know Ryan is a busy guy. Why has there not been a search for or an appointment of a Czar to be in charge of the class? 5 hours a month would go a long way with the pulpit we have here. That small amount of time would make a HUGE difference. Yet no one leads…

I did expect to stir some debate. DEBATE, not anger. I did not "call out" Ryan. I respect Ryan and the job he has done with the HAMB. I'm an alliance member twice over now and have yet to use the membership for anything but a donation. I point to the fact that the class is dying, there are a NUMBER of builds in suspense or just plain dead. The HAMB could and should be doing something... anything... about this yet there has only been silence. If this debate gets some action out of the higher ups, GREAT.

I'm not angry, just disillusioned. I expected to go racing for a modest sum against similarly equipped cars. I expected the HAMB to act as a sponsor for the CLASS and to promote the CLASS and to regulate the class. Instead I find that we are basically on our own, with the group all ready fractured over the automatic transmission issue. Until the NHRA allows us to run, the class is a dream, nothing more because the NHRA controls the largest number and most visible tracks. Many areas, like here in St. Louis, have nowhere else to race. Nobody is going to spend 5-10 grand to build a car to run 1-2 times a year. People do not have that kind of spare change EXCEPT the money guys, the ones that ruined vintage racing. I know I don’t.

HA/GR is a great concept. There has been no support for it.

 

I want to say something here although my car is not a legal car anymore because I chose to put an automatic in it. I purchased my car from another person who decided to go another route. My engine is a Hamb engine in the spirit of the Bug. The Bug had high compression heads, three carbs and I'm sure the best cam he thought he could buy. No where does it say we are going to race junkyard engines in stock form. I have a stock block bored out to maxium oversize, stock head that has been ported, high compression pistons, homemade intake with 1957 carbs and a single point stock distributor. The cam is a rather mild Isky running stock rocker arms. Granted the engine has been balanced but nothing has been done that wasn't going on in the day of the BUG. I run an automatic trans because of the cost of repairing the stick setup was expensive and demoralizing because I couldn't finish a race day without it breaking. We are making headway here in the midwest because some tracks are inviting us to run. I think that if we simply increase our numbers the tracks will know they can count on a good show rather than one or two showing up. Roy

 

1. The HAMB is NOT a racing organization, we are a off shoot of racers in the HAMB.

2. Irrelevant, as drag racers are truly not as large of a percentage of hot rodding today.

3. If you are that obsessed, why not promote yourself.

4. We are drag race related, hence the location.

5. Reality check.......We have power over N(o)H(ot)R(ods)A(llowed) Corporate Racing?? You are out of touch with the real world!!

6. It seems like other folks in the area are racing if you read their posts. Towing is just part of the game.

7. Again, money rules the media and we are not a big draw.

8. Life isn't fair.

9. We all have to lead if we want this to work, read the posts, there is a lot of "self promoting" of the class going on.

Sorry for your disillusionment, if your happiness depends on what others do for you, then you do have a problem.

I'm not angry. I just don't understand anyone who is so out of touch with what this is about.

The basic concept is a step back in time to when people built their race cars in the garage and ran what they built and there have always been those who wanted to play but didn't have the skills, but had the bucks to buy what they wanted.

With that said, the "little guys" still build and race.......and sometimes they win, but they know inside what it is all about and the true drag racers involved do it for the love of the sport, not the "front page".

(End of rant!)

 

I really believe that the one rule regarding tire type/size is the real limiting factor. As long as that rule sticks, times and speeds will be inherently limited. As far as the "money guys" are concerned, it really won't matter how much money you throw at an engine, the other factors regarding the chassis, particularly the tires, will keep things within a competitive range.

The horsepower and torque range of the hossier engines will eat the manual transmissions for lunch. If a big hoss engine is running a 3 speed manual, they'll have to baby it to live, giving the lower hp/tq engines a chance if the driver is skilled enough to take advantage of it. We're already seeing a necessary split between automatics and manuals for this very reason. The split between the horsepower classes is happening all on its own. If the auto-outlaws aren't welcome at MO-KAN, that's fine and will be understood, but it won't deter the guys wanting to run closer to home within their own group of enthusiasts with a local rules deviation - which is what I believe is the ultimate goal for any of us.

There are more folks planning builds than is represented on this board, I'll promise you that. Inspired by this board, absolutely. I barely ever viewed the HAMB until finding this section, and there are more coming. As long as the basic rules stay intact, I think we're fine all across the gamut of spending limits. Any way you slice it, its more affordable than most competitive motorsports.

Be a little more patient, this isn't going to explode overnight. We need more local guys working on/with their local tracks all over to get these things before folk's eyes. The number 1 goal is to enjoy yourself, who cares about winning all the time? Its the pursuit of a win that makes for the fun. This hasn't even addressed 1/8 mile tracks vs. 1/4 mile tracks - and who really cares? Just get out there somehow and have fun. It would be just as fun to get here and post up times from all across the country than it would be side by side, until we might actually get the chance square up in person. Patience and comradery, it'll grow on its own.

I really, really like the KC fella's "big dog - porch dog" rules of engagement, where you keep making runs whether you win or lose. Keep on running and grinning, and having a good time with your Buds! That's what this should be about, and improve what you can when you can.

Hud

 

There are HA/GR's running in various parts of the country at NHRA tracks. While they don't meet the NHRA rules entirely, because they aren't real fast the local operators have let them run. I think as more HA/GR's find their way into the 11's, tracks are going to get squeemish about letting single hoop roll bar open cars run. My intent, if I go the HA/GR direction (I have a sbc Crosley wagon that I race) I would build it NHRA-legal. That way it can be run anywhere at Test & Tune or Brackets with no hassle. In the same sense that you can't race with a tee shirt and an old football helmet as the early drag racers did, you probably can't race with the HA/GR roll bar configuration at very many tracks. It might even be worse if 20 eleven second HA/GR's showed up at a track. The operator could see it as more risk. I'd rather be able to run an HA/GR -style car at my local tracks all summer and get snubbed at the HAMB Drags for having too much roll bar than to build a car that I can only run once a year.
Now, Mr. dabirdguy, if you build one you can run locally, whenever you want, all your other concerns simply go away.

 

there always be people that only want to race in their backyard and only when it doesn't involve commitment.People will spend spend as much as they can depending on their goals.

 

Well for my two cents worth....I really can't see a guy spending 5 to 10 grand for a HAMBster. Oh I could spend that much, But won't.. Right now my car is about 75% completed (Health issues slowed me down a bit) and I think I might have about $150.00 in it so far,,And when I do get to get it finished I plan on running it just when and where I can..It's not going to have a HIGH DOLLAR motor in it. (Im retired) Most parts were donated or some I had laying around..But I'm still gonna take it out when I can and have some fun..
You talk about no place to run.. Every track in southern Cal. is controled by NHRA.. Those dudes hate low budget racers.. But we have a promoter on our side, Who would really like to have a real HAMB race. To try to promote the class more...The intrest is pretty high. But like anything else It takes time to get things going...This is like going back 50 yrs in time..And the Golden Idols of NHRA can't think "LOW BUCK".. Glenn. Be one of the guys to support and help get this thing going.. It's not going to be handed to you on a silver platter. But if enough of us keep plugging away at it, It will become a reality..I know I get down sometimes because I can't take my car out yet.BUT I WILL, soon..

 

Ryan,
You are correct. I have been accused of a lot of things. Having TACT is NOT one of them.
My appologies on that front.

Again, this was not meant as a personal atack. This was meant as an attempt to stir some action on fronts I see needing movement if the class is to succeed. I talked to a number of folks at the drags, including a couple of the higer-ups here in the HAMB, and I assumed that my concerns filtered upward. I appologise for that assumption as well. I also stopped by the tent several times to chat with you personally, but you were always busy...and I understand that as the Drags are a BIG show to run.

Yes, i do care about the class. My website has a running history of the build.
http://glennsplace.com./ha_gr.htm

I also took the time to make a copy of the rules and post them there:
http://glennsplace.com./hagr_rules.htm

And I posted a lot of pics of the HAMBsters..
http://glennsplace.com./2008_drags.htm

I made up cards with pictures of the car and directions to my website and the HAMB.

We tried to build the car to BOTH the NHRA and HAMB specs. The Horrible HAS a double hoop rollbar. It touches the chass directly at 6 points. I tracked down one of the tech guys locally and he visited my garage and told me that Gateway would almost certainly NOT allow the car to run in anything but an exhibition mode.

The areas where the cars are succeeding are the areas where the cars GET ONTO THE TRACK AND RACE. I think that hte HAMB has the horsepower to make that happen. I'd love to see it.

Thanks for listening.

 

Maybe I'm wrong Glenn but running a couple of these cars in exhibitions would likely generate fan interest and could possibly lead to more track time. Aren't there smaller tracks in the area that you would stand a better chance racing at, even if they are still NHRA tracks?

 

2007 - Gentlemen, we hauled our car to three meets our first year. At each we were graciously allowed to "show & tell" but not to run. We were told that our car'd never pass NHRA tech. We rah-rahed the class and had fun.

2008 - We didn't quit. we hauled up to another meet our second year, same thing. We passed out materials, fired and showed the car and had a good time.
We hauled out to a second meet and were surprised to be allowed some exhibition runs. We had a ball.
At the third meet we attended (fully expecting to be relegated to show & tell again, and glad for the privelege) we were loosely teched and allowed to run in an existing bracket class far too well competed for our car. We Ran our T&Ts, quals and the first round of competition. We had an absolute blast.
At our fourth meet we'd made the roll bar concession and were teched without a problem in spite of their obvious lack of familiarity with the class. By now they knew our car and there was a second one there as well.
Our last meet this year will be in two weeks and we're looking forward to it with the glee of children at Christmas.

Actually, it's coming along much quicker than I'd thought it would out here. I truly thought we'd have the car up for at least two years before we could run'er on a strip. A pragmatist by nature, I never expect to realize more than 10% of my wishes, thus am surprised when I do.

If you aren't ready, willing, able and of a mind to stick it out, starting something new just isn't your game. You should find an extant herd for your enjoyment. This isn't an indictment of personal character, merely an observation that path-finding isn't for everyone. You will indeed run exhibition or even not at all 'til they get used to it.

I won't go into the rationalle of hobby spending as it'd be pointless. We all spend what we want/can on'em, in both time and money. The thing that makes it worth the while is the enjoyment we derive from it.

I will say that some folks are indeed willing to spend on their cars, it's simply the nature of reality. Our car cost safely under $2000.00 for one stark reason; we wanted it to. We happily took one aspect of the build to be the very "cheapness" we might attain. Careful scrounging, hard core bartering, patient shopping and extensive home fabrication were all part of the fun of the build for us, as was the selection of cheap parts in the design/engineering phase. Also, it'd have cost half what it did had we been in a position to do more of our own machining.

 

I agree. I hear there is a handful of guys in the midwest looking to build a true HA/GR car cause there are tracks around here that want us to run them. The cars are built safely and we've even had NHRA tech inspectors look over ours and said it would pass tech. HA/GR doesn't mean build a turd, it means build a budget dragster with vintage parts in the spirit of the bug and what drag racing used to be. I'm hoping over the winter we get Bubba's fixed and begin the build of our second one for me to drive next year. Ours were build on a budget with stuff we had laying around the shop or haggled a good deal on. Shit, one of our mopar friends yanked a slant six out and gave it to us so he could put a V8 in his car.

So get that damned auto out of your car and build you a manual that won't break.

 

my 2 cents..... for some reason the "money guys" comment caught my eye. My car, the Crooked 6, won the 2007 hamb drags. We built it on a few thousand dollars, a second hand chassis, donated parts, and TONS of blood/sweat/tears. Our team was small. 3 guys(and wives/kids for love and support). I sold the car last year to 348chevy and have loved watching him evolve the car into his own. I have had a few (street) cars over my life so far, but have always loved watching and reading about drag racing. If it wasn't for Ryan, the hamb, and the support of all of you (too many names to mention) I would have never gotten into drag racing. Now I am building a Jr Fuel car. Not because I wanted out of the ha/gr, but because I wanted a new challenge. Who knows, that slant 6 sitting in the corner of my garage may make it into another ha/gr some day.

With anything in life don't ever hesitate to ask for help/support. There are always people who want to help if asked. As for the ha/gr group and Ryan? Damn dude, you couldn't ask for a more supportive group.

Good luck to you and maybe if you change your mind you can repair some bridges and come back to the group.

 

I'm a member of a LOT of other forums, as I'm sure a lot of you are. I tended to avoid the HAMB because I didn't like the format, not the content. Personal preference, not that big a deal really.

That said... You guys have hooked me in pretty hard with this HA/GR stuff. So now, you're kinda stuck with me.

I spent the better part of ALL DAY YESTERDAY downloading photos, information, build pics, and I've made a little folder that I'm presenting to all my rod/fabricator buddies this afternoon. It was a LOT of freaking work, that information is everywhere but not organized. I made the effort to look at EVERY SINGLE FRIKEN picture on the flathead site that had the HAMB drags... I think it was 2500 pics... I'm already on board to build one, and my best hotrod buddy is on-board already, he showed up last night.

This class concept is ME to a T. We like to build stuff, we're pretty handy at it, we dig on the old school, and we're not afraid to go slow to have fun. The concept is solid, and DAMN COOL. Just orgainze it one spot... that's all I'd personally like to see.

I'd be interested in a more organized spot for it, rather than finding bits and pieces of HA/GR threads all throughout the site. Just a like a "classified section" or whatever else. A dedicated spot for that stuff to be would very nice. That's all I'm saying.

Right there under the general discussions, next thing, HA/GR. It's clearly a HAMB thing, have fun with it. It's yours, and it's why I'm now active here. But help a guy out!!!!

I have a few HA/GR build questions... I didn't know where to put them. And here I am in some guys for sale thread asking for help. Just about as good a spot as any, if you read the rest of the thread.

<--- just needing some direction.

 

I'll bet that's why the forum is labeled HA/GR.

 

We're in the sub-category of the drag nationals under events.

What I'm saying is, I wouldn't have come on the site and expected to look in "events" and then the "HAMB drag nationals" to find the car information.

Of course it makes sense to you guys, you're the HAMB guys.

I'm the new outsider trying to figure out how the HAMB is organized.

I'll get it. Just need some pointing.

 

tact and appropriateness aside. I think dabirdguy has a few points. And so did the people that responded.

As the FNG, I will add that it is a tad odd to just toss some rules out and leave it at that.

Be kind of like selling all your stuff to join a cult that sounded interesting... only to find out, nothing interesting is happening, and now you don't have your stuff either. I know, pretty amazing how I bridged those experiences isn't it.

Just be nice to have a few more outings with your cult friends, burn a goat, drink some coolaid and wait for the Hale-Bopp comet, whatever, something. just show a little progress for the cause from the leader.

Neat idea so what's happening with it? I think that's what he's trying to say.

No offense to anybody in an actual cult...

 

Hi Vector, Start building and you will be in the 'cult', by the way that Hale-Bopp comet usually passes by Mokan in late August. You were asking about ford 6's, I think that a 250 is being used on the left coast, in a HA/GR. PM me with your E-Mail address and I will send pictures of my car. That's because I don't know how to put pictures on here. By the way, welcome to the cult. Joe

 

Remember, two ears one mouth, it is a wise saying. You REALLY need to hang around here more before passing judgement. You also NEED to go to the HAMB Drags next August to get "what we are about". This class was started around the HAMBDrags and Mokan..............nothing more nothing less. Getting to run at other tracks is just gravy.

 

Firstly, I just want to build a car and have fun with my buds. But I don't want a pissed of track and 6 pissed off buddies when we blindly build this stuff and are out in the cold. Had we only taken a few minutes to discuss a good path for our area, we'd be better off, and here we are.

Not a judgement, just my thoughts. Mind you, I bet if that last sentence "This class was started around the HAMBDrags and Mokan..............nothing more nothing less. Getting to run at other tracks is just gravy." there would be a better understanding.

Also, this stuff listed below is the EXACT wording from the hambdrags.com site about it, and it is a bit more enthusiastic than what you're saying. I'm not being argumentative, just pointing out that it says different things in different places. Do you feel that it reflects the what you wrote? Even the title of the article, "heads up racing for the working man".

You'll notice that I am very careful in my word selection, I never said anybody was wrong or right on anything.


Heads Up Racing For The Working Man

It started a few years ago... Kevin Lee had the initial idea for a "parasite" digger and took the time to share his thoughts in what has now become a historically significant thread on the H.A.M.B.. Sam Strube took it from there and started laying out what he thought would be appropriate rules. Fellas listened and three cars showed up at the 2005 H.A.M.B. Drags ready to duke it out.

I have no idea who won. Hell, I didn't even have a trophy for the winner. In either case, I don't think it mattered to any of the teams or spectators. We were all just happy to be a part of something that literally hadn't happened in 50 years - traditional " bug styled" diggers going full bore down the quarter mile. It was a sight to behold and something most there will never forget.

After the event, word started to spread and the HA/GR class started to a get a lot of attention. In fact, race tracks across the country as well as through out the world began asking questions. The next thing we knew, there were 20 something cars being built in the U.S. and another 15 or so in Australia.

We hit a nerve... Still, this movement is so young it seems a bit presumptive to have a "history" page in this manner. Chalk it up to confidence and an absolute dedication to spreading the gospel. You will be hearing much more from us in the years to come.

Here's another quote that might be miscontrued. "have fun and show the folks". that's only supposed to happen in Mokan?

"...
Introduction

You will notice that our rules leave a little for interpretation. That's on purpose. We have no aspirations of turning this class into a full on competitive racing class backed by egos and sponsorship. This is a vintage class and our number one priority is to keep the past alive... to give folks a glimpse of what it was like in the golden era of drag racing. We feel like this set of rules do that and we like the retain the power of veto...

Have fun. Run Hard. Show the folks..."

 

Joe, I dropped you a note, I'd be happy to help out with pics, tutorials or whatever you need.