We're getting ready to scratch build a body for the O/T Beemer Rod. The guys in the rod shop usually **** weld and hammer panel seams. I had the idea of rolling a flange in one edge of each seam, punching the flange and MIG spotting the panels together. I always flange the seams on the race cars, but they're not permanently attached. I was thinking that we could go back and lead in the seams, much like soldering copper pipe. Figured it would be kind of traditional, but I'm not a body guy and don't know if this was a common technique. I know the dangers of working with lead, that's not really my question... Anyone have experience with flanging and leading seams? Good idea, bad idea? We can always **** and bondo them, just wanted to try something different.
Oh goody! Then I can call it a Ra...MMmmmMmmph. Seriously, I don't think that will be a problem as this thing won't see a lot of daylight. Just wondering about the procedure.
Anouther thing to consider is the pannel wont flex proper and a slight line in the bodywork may be there, nothing noticable on anything but a show car
Not if the seams were leaded afterwards, like he said they would do. Done correctly, the melted lead would displace any moisture and fill any spaces in the seams
I wouldn't.You won't be able to hammer out any distortion after welding.And yeah it will be a rust trap,moisture will still probably get in from behind
That's why I was thinking of spotting only, and kinda using the lead as "glue"(?). Sorta like the bonded and riveted aluminum race car tubs I've worked on. I've never seen a production body done this way, but that doesn't mean much either way.
Flange the repair panel or **** it, weld it solid, put a coat of Duragl*** then your bodyfiller. Undercoat or seamseal the backside. Do it right the first time and you won't worry about it later in the future. Just tell others you did it the 'old way'.
I thought about flanging and leading and everybody dicsouraged me. I did flange and weld with TIG and i have found that i can use steel filler and i have had no distortion. I'm careful of the continuous weld bead, lots of tack welds and then move around with the filler welds. I have the heat low, and it is distortion free and i can move the molten steel around as if it were lead. I am working with 20ga and plan to up it to 18 ga. with the same technique. It was easier than i thought and i'm getting better at it all the time, the biggest problem is the slight undercut it the edge of the weld. Sometimes it is there and sometimes it isn't and i have yet to figure out how not to get it. Good luck, oj
Hmmmm.....aren't most production cars built this way? I'm restoring a '68 Charger, and most panels are flanged, overlapped and spot welded from the factory.
Don't most factory seam flanges meet in a "T" shape...? I'm talking about a step flange like you'd have on a patch, so the 2 panels flush fit. Then spot welding and filling the seam with lead. Like I said, I'm not a body man, so I could be all wet here. Just seemed like a neat idea to try.
Ah yea.....yer right.....but the principal is the same.....right? Your way actually sounds better...as the factories just smeared seam sealer over the gap.
They have tools for putting a flange on like that, i was just talking about it with a guy from work neither of us had used one but we both own one
Are you talkling about seems in the middle of a panel? I was always taught to **** weld to allow the panel to flex like it would if it were one piece. Its one thing to have a flange where to seperate panels meet, such as a lower quarter into an upper, but I wouldn't do one smack dab in the middle of a panel.
Hey, This method of a joggle or step flange, spot welded together and leaded over was an industry standard up until lead and "jig" built vs. robot built bodies became the standard. I don't see a problem with this method, as you've stated its use will be other than extreem weather/duty. Good panel alignment & welding as well as proper leading pratices will yield a joint that will meet or excede any of the modern plastic filler/ calking methods. S****ey Devils C.C. "Meanwhile, back aboard The Tainted Pork"
A spot welded joggled seam, covered with lead, is pretty common on 60s and 70s junk where the rear pillar meets the roof. Pretty durable. A spot welded flange seam ( T shaped ) is pretty common on 30s stuff. The lead always cracks though.
The whole body is being scratch built by hand, so I'm not really sure where all the seams are gonna be...but I was thinking of doing all of them that way. It seemed to me that spot welding and leading would allow the body to flex more, as it isn't putting as much heat tension in the panels as a **** welded seam...? Again, the only comparison I can draw from my own experience is a monocoque.
How do you guys hammer weld your seams?If done properly you shouldn't need any filler. http://metalmeet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10453
Easier said than done. Have you ever tried this on a large panel. One really has to be able to read the panel to get it right. I am fighting this problem right now. I have been chasing and oil can for 4 hrs now and am coming close to skim coating it with Bondo. It all comes down to your skill level and the amount of time you can afford to spend on it, If your scratch building a car then your into it for the long haul but if your not and dont have a master teaching you or working with you (***uming your skills are novice) as you go you will find yourself getting into trouble. As far as the flange. I would think this would be the first place for moisture to gather. I know that the commercial shops do it this way and I doubt they use duragl*** (on the backside) when its done, but if done properly as suggested earlier I could see it holding up. Just my 2cents Archie
Well this morning I tried it both ways. The first way is with out metal finishing the weld and the second metal finishing the weld. On the first piece I tacked it every inch.Every time you hit the stinger you are causing heat which is shrinking the panel.So even with just the tacks the panel is already warping.Then I filled in between each tack cooling the metal after each series of weld.I also skipped around trying to reduce the amount of heat being applied.It doesn't really matter because the heat was already applied every time I pulled the trigger.So to make a long story short after the panel was welded it was bad warped. Here is the way I have been welding and I swear buy it.Even after each tack,I grind the proud of the weld down.flip the panel over re-stretch the haz of the weld(the blued area).I do the same thing while filling in between the tacks.I do it after every inch of weld to try and keep the panel under control.I know it sounds like a lot of work but that is because it is.It doesn't bother me because what ever time I lose while welding I gain back when the body work is being done. Try it for your self and decide for your self.
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