History Old prejudices about automotive brands

Note: This is a tasteless and non-PC topic, and does not represent my current thinking. It is probably more suitable for the Old Farts' Club, but I thought that it might be of some historical interest to younger HAMBers who grew up in a later and perhaps more tolerant era. NONE of this was based on any personal experience with the brands in question, and virtually all of it came from other kids of my age. I acknowledge that most of these views were geographically isolationist and California-centric; I imagine that they differ considerably from those of New Jersey, Ohio, or Florida.

I was reading the article about Edmunds speed equipment in TRJ, and it started me to thinking about the various automotive prejudices I grew up with in Southern California in the mid-'50s.

Speed equipment: Edmunds, Fenton, and Almquist were all regarded with disdain, probably because those makes were seldom seen on the real race cars that appeared in magazines. Edelbrock, Weiand and Offenhauser were viewed as generally pretty good (as they are today), but Sharp, Navarro, Howard, Hilborn and Evans seemed to be the hot stuff for real racers. Iskenderian and Engle were the significant cam grinders, with Winfield and Weber known from an earlier generation. B&M made big waves at the end of the decade by demonstrating that a properly built automatic could beat a stick in drag racing.

Wheels: Rader (spelled that way back when), Keystone, and Astro were all looked down on (this is more a '60s observation), on the grounds that they were inferior knockoffs of Americans. For some reason, Cragar escaped this stigma, and were considered to be acceptably cool. Halibrands were in a cl*** by themselves; the real deal.

Retailers: anything automotive from Sears, Wards, Atlas (Standard Oil), Pep Boys or JC Whitney were viewed as un-cool.

Auto body and paint: Earl Scheib? No.

Makes of cars: Nash, Hudson, and Crosley were distinctly uncool. Chrysler products were viewed as having good engineering, but no style (this changed with the C-300 and the '57 models). Kaiser and Studebaker were acquired tastes for only a few. Cadillacs were only owned by the parents of rich kids; Buicks and Pontiacs were owned by flashy people who liked having too much chrome on their cars. Chrysler, Cadillac, and Buick OHV V-8s were cool engines and suitable for transplanting into other, earlier bodies, even though the donor cars were unsuitable for young guys. European imports seemed exotic and, in some cases, pretty cool (a view that seems to have changed considerably a**** hot rodders of today); Japanese cars were completely unknown.

Speed shops: In WLA, the cool shops were Quincy Automotive and Lee's Speed and Muffler; the schlocky place was Lewie Shell, who reputedly dealt in stolen parts. Shops like C-T Automotive and So-Cal appeared in the magazines, but they were waaay out in the San Fernando Valley, so none of us patronized them.

It's interesting to me to note that many of these narrow views have softened over the years, and some brands like Studebaker and Astro have gained devoted followers -- maybe this is the global village phenomenon, and California is no longer the center of the rodding universe. Conversely, some of today's hot rodders have developed new prejudices, including almost anything foreign, radial tires, Chip Foose, billet accessories, and probably others I've missed.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

 

Doesn't seem to be the brand loyalty nowadays like even in the 60's My Dad bought a Studebaker for my older brother to drive us all to school in because, as he put it it was a "sturdy" car. Also my Dad wouldn't own a Pontiac because, back in the 30's, he owned one when he lived in the Upper Penninsula of Michigan. The winters are harsh there to say the least. It seemed his early 30's model Pontiac wouldn't always start up there in the winter so even into the 90's Pontiac, to him, was a bad car!!!!

 

Interesting thread. My dad bought Chevy and ONLY Chevy. It kinda got p***ed on to me when I got into cars, but as technology got shared or stolen, it seemed like evey car maker was building the same thing.

 

Geez , I got a Studebaker AND an Edmunds intake, I'm doubly uncool.

 

Pretty interesting reading here. Never knew or thought of some of this stuff, but I can see it happening in the past.

For myself, I did a very brief stint as a Mopar or no car guy. That didn't last long, as I still loved my 440 Duster, but also my '66 Nova 2 door. I was that "different" kid in St.Louis, as everyone else had a Camaro or Firebird in the '80s, and I had a Plymouth. I decided "oh well, **** it" and had fun with it.

Thats my take on the brand loyalty part. As far as parts go, their reputation with me is based strictly on quality and customer service. I can't imagine anything from Edmunds or Fenton being looked down upon, but I wasn't there.

As far as people go, anyone with more skills than me (thats a lot of people) gets my respect. So I'll stand up anywhere and tell you I respect Chip Foose, Boyd, etc..... Those guys make some really cool stuff out there. Period.

Anyway, interesting thread and something to ponder as I clean up the weekend tools.......

 

Until I read that i didn't realize I was "flashy"!

Yea, prejudice was definitely around back then. In my little hometown the rich kids drove 63-64 Impalas. The hoodlums had '57 Chevies, I had a '51 Ford so was not considered cool at all in the 60's lol

Cragers and Americans were the cool wheels, Aluminum slots (every one just called them Ansens genericaly) were the lower priced alternative.

 

Grew up in a Chevy family and I have primarily owned Chevies ever since. We had one of those RICH KIDS in high school that had a Jag 4-door that we all thought was as cool as it got. The first real custom that I saw was a 53 Ford convertible owned by a guy by the name of Wayne Duly. Ever since then 53 Fords were the coolest customs in my book but I still had Chevies. Although it would be hard to conince me even at this late stage of my life to buy anything else, I can apprciate work that has been done on other brands. Prejudiced still ,but open to others ideas. I might even buy a Ford some day.
Later,
****

 

Well, I always hated Mopar, but they had the HEMI. I always love GM because they built the SBC and BBC and Corvettes and tri-fives pretty much everything else. I loved Ford until I bought one new. Now I like Ford again because I bought a Mustang for the wife and now she loves me!

All newer cars are pretty much the same and they **** equally.

 

I'm kinda square, can you guess what I like? Ohh that wasnt covered. Cool thread though.
I have never been stuck on any brand, the gas gauges in all of them didnt work. Had all brands, and its the memories of the things I did in and with them that made them cool or special.

 

Around the mid 70's for a few years I attended a local automotive vocational school. It was incredibly fun, I learned a lot, and just happened to have several really brilliant instructors. One in particular had a background in drag racing including early 50s Oldsmobile stockers and Max Wedge Mopars.

During one of our cl***es we got to discussing which cars were the best in different areas of build. This one instuctor, with the drag racing experience, explained it to us this way. He said if you're looking for a car with high quality body and paint work and a sturdy, quiet, well designed interior, but were less concerned with the engineering and durability of the engine, transmission, suspension and driveline, then you bought a GM product.

Then he said if you were more concerned with a sturdy, more durable engine, transmission, suspension and driveline, and could tolerate some poor body fit-and-finish, some cheesy looking plastic interior panels and a few minor rattles and squeaks, then you bought a Chrysler product.

So of course another student raised his hand and asked, "Then why would anybody buy a Ford product?"

Without missing a beat he responded, "You know, I've never been able to figure that one out."

 

I grew up in the rural south,,,a poor ride was better than a proud walk! HRP

 

Echoes of the Mac vs PC debate... but I won't even go there.

~Jason

 

I drive a 37 Terraplane and before that a 48 Studebaker. If i would have back in the 50's, I don't know,maybe, I never was normal. Too late to change now.

 

My Dad was a Ford man all his life, at least for his daily drivers. Chevy was the engine of choice for racing with him. He always said, "I'd rather have a sister that was a ***** that a brother who drove a Chrysler"! Opinionated? Hell yes!!

 

I would say 50 Fraud's statement was pretty accurate with this old farts teen years.

 

I used to tell my kids friends if it ain't chev park it down the street so no one would think it belong to me. Beside that i tell people that i used to drive a ford then i got a job.

 

Ah memories....
Tire sizes were easier to figure out
Clover leaf was the cool wheel, syill my favorite
The baddest car on the drag was a 54 Chevy g***er
A shoebox was a Chevy
Girls wore tight bell bottoms, and tube tops
Sonic gave tose little plastic monkeys on the straws, that became a edge for our sunvisors
If you had some money you ran Sunday at Penwell, if not you ran Sunday night at 9-mile.
8-tracks, clod hoppers with red laces, AC/DC, everclear and bud, wings and t-shirts ....

I miss it....

 

I figger MOST car brands couldn't stay in business if they were as bad as their detractors say. A theory I've been testing to good effect. Had a PT Cruiser that ran great for 60,000 miles. Sold it due to boredom.

The Stable is mostly GM; a 66 Caddy, a couple of Vettes, and an Avalanche. My winter Driver's a Riceburnin' Subaru STi. They all rock, for varying reasons.

The family's had AMC, Lincoln, Acura and GMC. They all were pretty good cars.

It's also funny how a Bimmer can have five things fixed under warrantee and be '****' or 'the ****' depending on how well the owner likes BMW's.

I like _cars_. I like car _people_. I don't have much time for folks that slam the cars they don't like.

 

I grew up in a family that drove Ford p***enger cars and Dodge trucks. My dad and his brother had owned a Chev. back in the 30's and the experience apparently left a bad taste as neither one would have anything to do with "The Hearburn of America" after that. Guess that's where I got my feelings about sbc's...

When I was growing up Olds, Buicks, Pontiacs and Cadillacs were considered to be good, desirable engine donors, but too big and heavy to be hot rod material. I've mellowed somewhat in my old age, but still dislike the belly-****on motors.

 

My dad had a lot of Fords in the '60's, mostly Y blocks. He said that speed parts were not very common (probably because he in the Southeast and most of the action was out West) and that it was more about swapping in the biggest engine you could find. He told me there were auctions where you could buy fairly new cars with what amounted to a week's pay so they would often go buy a really nice Lincoln or Cadillac only a couple years old, remove the engine and junk the rest.

 

I grew up in a Chevy family - my grandfather, Dad, and both his brothers had nothing but in the '50s and '60s. My sister married a motorhead in the late '60s who was a Mopar fan, but had other cool **** like a '63 'Vette split-window, a '66 'Vette ragtop, a '55 Chevy (looked like the Two-Lane Blacktop car - before that movie ever came out!), and more over the years. He got me into Mopars early on, when I was about ten. A few years later, my Dad had a string of nice '65-'67 Mustangs, inkcluding a coupe of ragtops, a couple of GTs, and a 289 4-speed fastback, a****st others, plus a sweeeeeeeet '63 T-Bird! It was the first car I ever drove over 100 mph! He still had quite a few Chevys, too. I've been pretty much a Mopar guy since the mid-'70s (was a Mopar-or-no-car guy for many years), plus have owned several Hudsons since 2000. I have owned and driven a LOT of others over the years. I've owned VWs, BMWs, Toyotas, Datsuns, and even a little Volvo, too. And, I've liked nearly all of them for what they were. I'm still not a big Ford fan, though I'd love to find another '61-'63 'Bird, '64 Galaxie, or a '66 Mustang fastback.

Moral of the story - I drive what I like, not what everyone else likes.

 

And still isn't.

 

I lived in the sticks as I began my obsession with all things Hot Rod. Relying upon the Peterson publications, I wanted to emulate the So Cal Hot Rodders, I considered them the trendsetters, and they were the record holders.

White's Auto and Western Auto offered up some "speed and custom" equipment, mostly Fenton and Almquist, knock offs of the "real" stuff in the magazines.

I remember Raders and Astros as east coast. Barris used those wheels on TV cars, (ahem). Radirs have a nice following now, wheels and slicks, I'm glad they're making them, now I think they look great, that's a definate change in thinking from years ago.

Halibrands were unobtainable. Americans were'nt far behind. In the mid 60's, when the "mag wheel era" was firmly established, Fenton and Appliance were the big producers of copies of the "real wheels".

 

My family is Ford through and through because my grandpa had a few back in the day, and Ford was into the road racing.

 

Grandpa bought a new Pontiac with what in family lore was described as a "canary" He brought it back to the dealer repeated times and they couldn't get the squeak to stop.. So he traded on the spot for an Oldsmobile.. We as kids were told to buy an Olds.. Grandpa went on to get the first automatic just before the war and had several through the years until he died in 78. He bought one just before he was to retire.. a 78 Delta 88.. he didn't enjoy it much as he died a week before retirement. Bummer. That car must have gone 300,000 miles.. my uncle drove it for 25 years. My dad also bought a new Olds in 77.. I inherited the car and drove it through my college years.. 275,000 miles.. was a Custom Cruiser Delta 88.. Not much for style..but great roomy reliable cars. We were always su****ious of Pontiacs.. the only new car my dad bought was that 77 olds. Other than that we had no brand loyalty.. was what was used and cheap.. but we never had a used pontiac no matter how cheap. Ukranians never forget!

 

When I was a kid, if your family had a Rambler, Hudson, Nash you were a loser. Infact anything non-GM or Ford you were a loser. I find it so odd that guys today would even consider building a four door anything, muchless, a no-cool brand. It seems that you carry much of who you were, when you get older. As a kid, it was always the bad *** early cars that turned my crank' especially if it was fenderless. Of course we all knew that out in California, you couldn't go a couple of feet without seeing a show type hot rod. We also knew (second hand info, of course) that all the girls in Clinton were ****s and would put out for anyone.

 

My Grandfather is a Ford man, to the core. The only thing GM's were good for was farm work (I bug him that his Fords wouldn't have been able to handle it) and I don't think he's ever owned anything Chrysler.

My Father has owned a little of everything, it seams, Ford pickups, mostly GM's and one old Dodge we used for light farm duty, replaced with a GM. But the ultimate cool-cars (in his eyes) are the MOPAR muscle, I guess it was just the era he grew up in.

Myself, I'm a GM guy. I'm not sure what it is, I don't think I was ever impressioned to like anything, as GM's and Fords were both accepted in my family...but not Dodge, I strongly dislike almost everything about them, even though modern vehicles are all pretty much the same animal. In my eyes, with the exception of a few of the late 60's muscle cars, Chrysler was never any good at producing cool vehicles. On the other hand, GM has always seemed to produce cool cars/pickups and Ford has done their fair share of it as well.

 

In my opinion they are all cool as long as its pre 70 and American made, especially Ford from 28-40. But even today in the Dayton area, The prejudice is if you drive anything other than a Chevy its junk. And Ford is the worse...Everyone always says Found-On-Road-Dead. but I think thats because so many people around here worked at Delphi.

 

This card carrying old fart agrees with all your statements from 3000 miles away.

As I look back on it, I think much of any prejudice was based on initial price. The old, "if it costs more it must be better", syndrome. The American clones were always perceived to be of lesser quality because they were cheaper.

When I think about this type of topic I think about taking my teenage son sneaker shopping. He wouldn't pick out one he thought looked good until he knew the price. For some reason he always preferred the more expensive brand. I think that is human nature. I know I always looked down on speed parts and wheels that were sold in Sears and J.C. Penny.

 

Smart move...
But... let me share some thoughts anyway... lol

Chrysler/Mopar = Mac
Engineered well. Doesn't always look on the that good outside but usually works and performs as expected.

Ford = Linux
Can work properly, but needs a lot of wrenching and tune-ups to keep it running.

Chevy = PC
Cheaply built. Usually bulk production only so quality/durability is less relevant. If it fails just buy a new one. People think it's normal it breaks down once in while.




ClayMart,
I think I like that teacher you had.