i have heard th saying metal fininshing but not sure what the full details are. this is my best atempt at "metal finishing" from this to this but would like to know how bobby walden does it. i know it is years and years of practice but id liek to know thank you in advance TM and yes i have done searches but nothing
Heard about metalmeet.com on here the other day. Very comprehensive forum site on just about any kind of metal work. Take a peek! You have to register but you had to do that to be here so...
Is that my door? Best advice I can give ya is lay your door flat on the ground and drive over it. Then try to straighten it, that'll be lesson #1. Post a pic and I'll give ya lesson #2.
Hey, I boleave HAMBER John Kelly did a post with video on metalfinishing you may wanna start with this fine post of his. Prior to the advent of plastic filler (Bondo) in 1948 automotive sheetmetal damage was straightened in one of two ways. Either filled with lead solder, usually 30% tin and 70% lead bars melted and smoothed onto the tinned surface of the steel with a wooden paddle. Once the lead solder cooled, it was filed to shape with a vixen file. A vixen file has arc shaped teeth spaced much further apart than a standard mil or ******* file. This is to prevent the lead from sticking in between the teeth. The other method of straightening was metalfinishing. Metalfinishing is just that, metal, no fillers what so ever! The low areas of the damage on the panel are brought up to normal conture, the high areas are driven down, again to normal conture. Body hammers, dollys, s****s and pry rods & picks ,together with a vixen file are used to reshape the panel to pre-damage status. The vixen file is used to highlight the areas of the panel that are low, high or normal conture. The file is only used AFTER all of the metal bumping( thats the term use to describe the roughing out of the damage), than the dinging operation comes into play with the corner of a dolly, a pick hammer or "bulls eye" is used to raise the low areas up to normal conture. The vixen file cuts across the tops of high points of metal leaving surrounding low areas highlighted, and to be raised with the dolly or pick hammer. The file is first pulled or pushed at a 30 degree angle across the panel, and that "crossfiled" forming an "X'' over the panel until no more low or high areas show on the repair area. Once this is completed, the repair is ground with a 36 grit disc in overlapping p***es to bring the panel to final shape and highlight any areas that require more work. Next a 60 grit closed coat disc is used, this time the grinding p***es are at a 45 degree to the previous 36 grit p***es. This removes any file marks and any scratches left by the 36 grit disc. This also is used to featheredge the surrounding paint for the spraying of surfacer to bring the repair up to the level of the finish on the panel. AN IMPORTANT NOTE, cutoff discs or cermic grinding wheels were never used in traditional metalfinishing. All of these leave the repaired surface far worse off than necessary as they now require more filler or surfacer to fill the deep gashes/scratches left by their use. When welding was necessary for a repair, gas welding was the method used as it left a "soft" weld that hammerwelded well and could be filed or ground without issue. Today the shrinking disc, as sold by John Kelly and others, has replaced the use of the vixen file and much shrinking and shaping can be done with this disc, where as in the past, those operations were performed with a torch, hammer and dolly. Today guys still butcher the surface of the metal with cutoff discs, not knowing how much extra work/cost they are making for themselves! Good lookin repair you have rendered, there! S****ey Devils C.C. "Meanwhile, back aboard The Tainted Pork"
Sign up at Metalmeet.com - plenty info there. Also get hold of Wray Schelin's (on ebay) dvd - he shows metalfinishing and the use of the shrinking disc. He does offer cl*** too - a little expensive maybe, but worthwhile (If I could justify a trip from the other side of the world to do one, it should be no problem for you "local" guys) Be prepared to spend a lot of time though, both in doing the work, and getting a feel for it - it does get better with practice. Barry
Nice job! It looks like you may need to stretch the area where the welds were. You can see the ripple at the bottom of the door where it matches up to your welds...at least that's how it appears in the picture. Here are a series of short videos showing metal finishing (parts 9-12): http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=GullWingInn&p=r And an article with links to several others: http://metalshapers.org/101/jkelly/index.html Thanks Pimpin Paint, but that article was not mine : ) John www.ghiaspecialties.com
thank you everyone i will check out that web site and try it on another panel. my drivers side rear quarter panel needs alot of work and might be worth it to get that dvd and a shrinking disk. anyone have pictures that show the process??
Nice job on the door.I sure like seeing someone trying to bring there car back to it's true form.It's a lot harder then filling it with body filler but it sure is nice knowing you have done it right. You can't go wrong with the video and shrinking disk.I was using mine all day today and it still amazes me how good it works.
Pictures instead of video (also shows how to make a shrinking disc: http://allshops.org/cgi-bin/community/communityalbums.cgi?action=openalbum&albumid=9980121727059 John www.ghiaspecialties.com
Tom, Thanks for the compliments on my metal finishing. Let me tell you about my first metal project in 1983. I had a '34 3-window coupe that the door bottoms were rotted out of. So I bought the patch panels from the magazine ad, read my "how to" article on body panel replacements in one of the all knowing technical articles in some damn magazine. So equipped with my magazine, my mig welder, my panel flanger, and the knowledge of not knowing what the hell I was doing, my metal working journey began. Long story short I cut out the rust, flanged the panel, overlapped the seam, and mig welded it all together. Of course it warped inside out and looked like a potato chip. And being **** all my life I started beating on it trying to make it straight. Before it was over with I had the inner panel of the door cut out and I had the door laying on the cement in the driveway pounding on it from the inside using the concrete as a giant dolly. Then I ground on it, pounded on it some more and I swear I followed the directions of the magazine to the letter. Haha. I didn't realize that the patch panel that I bought was dead flat. So when my friend finished bondoing it up for me he put the shape in it with mud. I'd heard they built bodies from scratch and I knew I was not doing it right. So in a 1983 Street Rodder was a picture of a guy named Scott Knight working on his Power Hammer buidling a deuce rear fender and it was *****in! 6 years later I took my first metal shaping cl*** from Scott and he got me moving in the right direction. The key things he told me: sell the mig, buy a tig. The only three things you can do to metal are shrink it, stretch it, and fold it. That's all. When you weld metal it doesn't warp. It's deformed by heat that is shrinking. The tig weld stays soft so you can hammer and dolly it. The other key is the shrinking disk. The one with the waves, not the smooth one. If you're not using this you're lost. The key to successful metalshaping and finishing is to always stay in control and remember that there's only three things you can do - shrink, stretch, fold. And practice. practice, practice. The final thing to success is to find the metalshaper whose techniques you like and only take instruction from that person because too much information can be very confusing. And remember this is simple, but it is a ****load of work! And I love it. Thanks, Bobby Walden
Hi Bobby, Minor disagreement ... on a couple of things. Tig is better than mig, and gas is also better than mig, but you can do beautiful metal finished work with a mig as well. The fluted shrinking disc is no better than a flat or low crowned disc, just a lot more expensive. I would add two things to the three things you can do to metal; Smooth and roll. It's very cool that you were able to take cl***es from Scott Knight. An awesome metal shaper from what I've seen. Your last comment about it being simple, but a ****load of work is right on. John www.ghiaspecialties.com
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