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Shelby A-arm relocation

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by moon.dog62, Oct 26, 2008.

  1. SOCAL PETE
    Joined: Oct 19, 2006
    Posts: 1,204

    SOCAL PETE
    Member
    from Ramona CA

    Guys they make a coil over shock now that bolts in place of that shock in the coil POS.
    It is ride height adjustable and functions with the creak and squeak when the spring saddle bushing goes to hell.
     
  2. Please elaborate. For handling?
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2024
  3. panic
    Joined: Jan 3, 2004
    Posts: 1,450

    panic

    "For handling"?

    Well, depends on how hard the car is pushed.
    MacPherson struts were a cost-saving device, nothing else (GM patent). Cheaper to make as a unit, easier to install, easier (but more expensive) to "rebuild" since it's a throw-away cartridge.
    However, the camber pattern is fixed, any vertical wheel motion gives camber change (which is not true with wishbones, which can have positive, negative or zero change with motion.
    A well-designed strut works very well - if it's not changed (spring rate, car weight, tire size, wheel offset, ride height). If you modify any of these, it's very tough to get back the acceptable camber pattern.
     
  4. hotroddon
    Joined: Sep 22, 2007
    Posts: 28,240

    hotroddon
    Member

    The original Mustang / Falcon design has much better A Arm length and a taller spindle than the Mustang II. This allows for not only better travel but a better camber curve when the upper A Arm is relocated in a fashion similar to the Shelby mod. Once you upgrade the brakes and now with Rack and Pinion conversions you have a far superior suspension design to the MII. If you talk to the guys at Global West or Total control Products I think you will find they not only support this theory but can explain in more detail (and TCP sells MII conversion also, but recommends the stock set up!)
    The other consideration is the way the MII conversion alters the structural integrity of the car. I have installed MII's in these cars before and I know there are many of them on the road but I recently had a very interesting conversation with recently retired Ford Engineer about this. He had seen my Falcon convert and we got to talking. He told me that there was a small circle of Ford employees that were Mustang/Falcon fans and one of them had done the MII conversion on his Mustang Convertible. Shortly after installing it the windshield cracked. He replaced it and it happened again. This engineer got involved and on personal time did some stress ****ysis on the Cray Supercomputer with 3D models of the Falcon/Mustang unibody converted to MII. They found that the loads created by moving the spring and shock loads as well as the loss of strength in the shock towers were the cause of the windshields braking. It also lead them to the conclusion that this would be a long term problem for all these cars. They also ran the program with a flat filler over the missing tower area and concluded that this was not enough strength, that the original design triangulates that area of the car.
    The only real benefit to an MII conversion over an upgraded original design is the elimination of the shock towers, but then again this is the concern for integrity.
    I know many will argue that they have done this with no problems but I also believe that everything this engineer had to say makes sense and since I also agree that the OE suspension design is superior i can't imagine doing any more MII conversions.
     
  5. Park a original 1965 GT-350, with the lowerd a-arms next to a original 1966 GT-350, without lowered a-arms,and there's quite a difference in the ride heights. And take into consideration that the 65 has tall *** 15" tires on it and the 66 has 14"s on it. Hmmm I wonder why the 65 sits lower ???? >>>>.
     
  6. chappys4life
    Joined: Sep 10, 2008
    Posts: 460

    chappys4life
    Member
    from Austin, TX

    Yeah my 66 mustang has the shelby mod and it really does lower the front.
     
  7. In my attempt to clear up some myths, did I only add to them?

    I thought for sure after C.S. designed the mod, the "later" early Mustangs dropped there mount holes by an inch or so.

    As far as binding joints and lowering... Fact is, two very similar cars may have different ride heights as each is slightly unique for many different reasons, even new from the factory. Ford's "various fit" back in the day is well noted.
    If lowering your car is what you're after, this mod is not going to help you. Cut the coils. For every half coil cut, you''ll actually see results.
     
  8. Drive Em
    Joined: Aug 25, 2006
    Posts: 1,748

    Drive Em
    Member

    I have done this mod on dozens of shock tower equipped Fords and Mercurys over the years, and have never used the negative wedge kit. I have been driving mt '70 Mach I with the Shelby drop for over 20 years with no problems. It will correct the geometry issue up front and make the car handle far better than before. It will not lower the car 1", maybe half of that. Another modification that will do wonders is to toss the original spring perches and install a set of perches with bearings, bronze bushings or polyurethane bushings, the "roller perches" will dramatically free up the front end of the car, and improve front to rear, and side to side weight transfer.
     
  9. Interesting.

    One on the big reasons I've been considering the MII is to gain room in the engine compartment by eliminating the shock towers.

    Whether rebuilding the stock 4-lug (which I don't have anymore), going Granada/Mustang, or to an entirely different suspension, the cost adds up quick-like. I'm not sure what special purpose, if any, my Falcon will serve. I guess for now the Granada/Mustang route is the least expensive and easy. Sometimes I wish I still had all the stock drivetrain and suspension parts.

    Thanks,
    Kurt
     
  10. Drive Em
    Joined: Aug 25, 2006
    Posts: 1,748

    Drive Em
    Member

    I've built several Mustangs and Falcons with the M-II front end, and they handle like a street rod, good enough to drive around in, but not that hot for performance driving. On my own '63 Ranchero, I have a pair of Eibach progressive rate springs, Koni shocks,Shelby drop, a 1 1/8" sway bar and a pair of Tommyzees roller spring perches. It also has a Flaming River steering box, and a set of '65 Mustang spindles with Granada rotors and big G.M. calipers. The car stops awesome, steers awesome, and will hold a corner like a new Mustang. One thing that is a must is a Monte Carlo bar that actually bolts or welds to the actual shock towers, and not the fender aprons. (which are thin sheetmetal) Keeping the shock towers from flexing will do wonders for the handling on one of these cars.
     
  11. uncle buck
    Joined: Feb 13, 2007
    Posts: 2,089

    uncle buck
    Member

    Unfortunately , your thought was incorrect on this. Ford did not do this themselves. As far as ball joint binding and wedge kits go, the more coils you cut the more important it is. Watch the control arm angle at the upper ball joint and you will notice the angle getting more off of a 90 degree angle the lower the car is. One of the other things not mentioned is this mod also adds a little more of the suspension travel back in that just cutting coils in stock arm location takes away. Another thing that I have found is longer shaft bolts and a 1/4" - 3/8" spacer plate will alot of times make aligning it easier and with a smaller stack of shims. Also don't expect the alignment shop to align it to stock specs.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2008
  12. drdave
    Joined: Jan 3, 2006
    Posts: 5,260

    drdave
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I've got the a-arm drop, wedge kit and cut 1 coil on my 69 Mustang. Drives great in daily traffic on real roads and dropped the front end several inches. Best mod I ever did to it. :D
     
  13. squash
    Joined: Jan 26, 2008
    Posts: 70

    squash
    Member

    sorry it took so long to find these pictures....I lost the cord my camera takes to hook to my computer. Hope these can be of some use...let me know if you need others snd I will see what I can do. I will try to have some pics of the car this weekend mabey.....gonna try to get her outside for a test flight!
     

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  14. weathrmn
    Joined: Apr 15, 2008
    Posts: 322

    weathrmn
    Member

    Would this modification work on a 69 Fairlane Cobra Jet. It's all stock now, hasn't been on the road for some time, forget how it drove in the turns, plenty fast goin straight.
     

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