Hey all you ring a ding dingers, I havent been on here in awhile, Ive been consumed by my first motorbike all summer (66' BSA lightning) and was bored to death with my old car (61 comet) But now I have a winter project that has me giddy as a school girl!!! I picked up this car cheap from a church!! It was donated, presumably by a widow. New glass, rubber, floor boards and trunk pans and rust free!! got it yesterday and cannot believe my good fortune. Got her to start briefly then the starter took a shit. I plan to hop up the old flatty cause I just think it looks tits and seems to be in good shape. Im a master mechanic but lack any experience with old mopars so....I got a few questions... 1... and probably most pertinent, does anyone know of a dual reservoir master cylinder that will bolt up, without buyin a whole kit? right now I just want to get her going and dont have alot of cash, later on drop spindles and disc brakes perhaps, for now I just want reliable drums and that old fruit jar is kinda scary.. 2... anyone make a alternator for this ol girl that looks like a generator? or maybe a 12v gen swap from something later model? 3... Is there a shock relocation kit around? Stock design doesnt seem like it provides much travel. not a big deal I guess, I dont plan a subframe though and would like to work with what I got.. 4... Anyone got any insight (suggestions) on hopping up these motors? I have a spare and plan on starting into her soon. How much can you safely take out of the head? Is there an electronic ign conv.? cams with a little more duration? Anyone run into valve floating issues? any info would be greatly appreciated as I cannot find any locally.. Guess thats it, sorry for the lengthy post, just excited to get going. Thanks in advance for any info fellas. Ill try an document my progress if anyone is interested. CHEERS...B.L.
Running the shocks between the upper & lower A arms wasn't the best idea. If he's still around Mr. Street Rod 805-522-9292 has the relocation kits, along with the disc brake kit. Fenton aluminum heads, 2X2 intake & split ex mans show up here & EBay now & then. You might try the P15-D24 forum for other things to do on the flatty.
Blow a call into Tom Langdon at Stovebolt. He has kinds of goodies for the MOPAR flat 6 motors; www.stoveboltengineco.com , 586-739-9601 (dual carb intakes, linkage, headers, carbs, HEI dizzie, etc). Good luck with your new project, Dave ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ '39 plymouth business coupe - hopped up Dodge flat 6 power '46 plymouth business coupe - same as '39
Man! I love where your head is!! You have a great car and you are willing to work with it. 1.) As for the brakes I rebuilt my master cylinder and replaced the 6 wheel cylinders, brake hoses and hard lines. Properly adjusted all 4 brakes and the e-brake. I was not taking any chances. I have driven many people in my car and have had many positive remarks on how well it stops. Also if for some crazy reason the master fails on you you have your properly adjusted e-brake to get you home (trust me...I have had to do this twice before I rebuilt both of our Mopars). 2.) I chose to keep the 6v system because I have 3 cars that have 50's 6v Mopar electrical systems so that way I only need 1 spare of each electrical item just in case. I am still running the original generator that came with the car but I carry a spare in the trunk. I also haven't replaced the regulator, starter relay but also carry spares. My system seems to work well enough that after 20+thousand miles it keeps going strong. 3.) I relocated the upper mount of the shock to the frame rail and went from an uncontrollable boat to a sports car (...in comparison.). Best thing I have done to date! 4.) There is lots of info on these engines. A great place to start is the p15-d24.com site. Great people with amazing amount of info. Also a good person to contact about anything related to hopping up your engine or tranny is George Ashe @ 814/354-2621. He specializes in vintage overdrives. I hope I can help and will follow you and your car. I have a bit of a weakness for 46-48 Plymouths. Yours is beautiful! BloodyKnuckles
The advice posted so far is right on. There is no reason to change to a 12v system. The stock 6v positive ground systems are super, and you will not find a car with better headlights. Keep the generator bearings oiled. As long as the generator and regulator are working properly you are good to go. The one change I would suggest is to use a 6 volt Optima battery. Mine spins almost as fast as if it was boosted with 12v. I cannot believe the difference, and I have driven these cars all my life. Also, you can mount the Optima flat in the battery tray (fits perfectly) and that will give people a better view of your flathead. The single circuit brakes are no problem if and only if everything else is up to par. Do that first. These cars have a million grease fittings and lube points. Even the distributor, rear wheel bearings and the back of the speedometer under the dash. Get familiar with all of them, keep the car well lubed, and in doing this you will have a chance to get up close and personal with the entire thing. One last thing to consider is to add a PCV system. It keeps the motor clean and prevents it from inhaling gritty ambient air (bad for your engine and a reason that many of these motors prematurely wore). Vintage Power Wagons (Google them) (aka VPW) has a lot of parts for these motors as they were used in military vehicles up into the 60s. They have a fitting that makes it easy to install a PCV system.
Good advice. I've got my motor out now going through it. Check out p15-d24 like BloodyKnuckles said. When on there, check out olddaddy's profile. He makes disc kits and shock relocation kits. I have a dual master that would work. pm or e-mail me. Wayne P.
Positive grounds? Like my Bsa? didnt know about that... Thanks for the links guys, found days worth of interesting reading... I have every intention of keeping this car period correct (like a rodder would have built in the 50's) Still not getting a warm fuzzy feeling about that master cylinder though... Anyone running electronic ignition?
Nice car...I have had great luck with the mopar flatty 6's...George Asche makes some cool stuff for them, p15-24 site has lotsa cool info...my panel is running split exhaust, with offy intake and twin carters...runs great, gets good mpg and fires up the first time every time...love those coupes...get her sittin' a little closer to mother earth and hop up that 6 and drive the crap out of it
You don't need electronic ignition with these cars. Holding a Zippo lighter close to the head almost gives you enough spark for these low-compression motors. I recall you asked how much you can mill the head. Check those links; many swear by big numbers. Since the head has probably been surfaced once or twice in the last 60 years, I would not cut it over .030. No need to go for huge compression numbers since the rest of the engine is not up for it anyway. Also, you will need to change the cam if you are serious. Just adding carbs/exhaust/compression is mostly window dressing without changing the camshaft. Back in the day Isky had a good 3/4 grind; I wonder if they are still available.
Langdons sells an HEI distributor that was originally on a v6 S-10 that has been reworked to fit the Mopar flattie. I have one in mine and am very pleased. Some others have used a Mopar Slant 6 distributor reworked with the flat head distributor shaft and a petronix module should be able to find info on this at P15-D24. I agree with everything posted above concerning the flathead. Mine runs great and gets a lot of attention when you pop the hood as it is just not something you see a lot of. Another suggestion to consider is that you probably have a 4.10:1 rear gear so highway speeds while attainable are pushing it a bit for sustained periods. You can get a Borg Warner R10 overdrive that is a bolt in replacement for the stock 3 speed then just add the wiring and you are good to go. Can also use a T5. Several guys have also swapped late 60's/early 70's B body rearends or an 89 - 90 Dakota rear. Just need to move your spring pearches and use the proper U Joint. This will let you switch to somewhat more friendly highway gear.
Easy with the sacky, jacky!! I made my own bracket that I welded to the frame and changed my upper mount on the shock to a stud mount for easy alignment. BloodyKnuckles
There is a hamb member here that mfg's disc brake conversion. I believe it's SCAREBIRD. There is also thread on here about making mounts and using longer shocks for a better ride. If I find it I'll hook you up and post it.
I have a 52 with the same brake system I used a 97 dodge Datona and built my own brace then cut the old off and mounted to the stock location and remounted the brake and clutch,on the new brace and used a remote from the Datona and works well with my disk kit.
Thanks alot guys, lots of great info and fuel for thoughts. For now I just wanna get her cruisin' (ie fuel lines, brake lines, some kinda m.cylinder, starter/generator rebuild, carb work and who knows?) But, being that I have an extra flatty from a 47 dodge p/u im gonna be studyin up on making a classic soup job. (with any luck she'll look as good as hkestes's) I managed to locate alot of cool parts, but no luck on finding cams? without that its like wiping before you shit!! anyone in the know? Thanks again yall..
You will most likely have to find someone to regrind your original. Earl Edgerton regrinds cams and makes new finned aluminum heads. Look up BlueSkies site www.50plymouth.com he has Earl's head and a pretty detailed build thread.
George A says the you can take .090 off the head and or block and still runn regular gas, you can go more but that would require hightest. But it is the least expensive and most effective way to get some more umph. You eed to remember these are long stroke motors, and though they are reletively well oiled, compared to their competition, they don't like a lot of RPM's. Old Daddy of this forum (www.rustyhope.com) also does split intakes and exhausts, you can fairly easliy adapt the MOPAR electronic ignition form a /6 if you want to switch to 12V. Most were equipped with 4.11 or 3.99 rear end gear, so they run around 3200 Rpms at 60. You want to keep the rear tires tall. I Hve a 46 Business Coupe, still runs 6v, the engine is out of a 56 (its a 230) I am running 40 off the head and 10 of the block, (about 8+ to 1 cr). Have driven from Central NY to Charlotte, Va, Detroit, and Vermont. If you go over to the P15-D24 site, there is a lot of information on the main site, and the forum has a lot of talk about rebuilds and upgrades to the flat 6. You already mentioned Bleuskis site, but Check out member Don Coatney's links to his photo bucket, he is running a desoto engine with a 5 speed and 3.55 rear end out of a 70's Charger in he Plymouth moredoor. Lots of informative pics. OldDaddy is also working a flatty to Powerglide adapter, but don;t think its ready yet.
Old Plymouth's only knock once! I heard that before but until my 48 P15 Woodie engine knocked once on I45N running up into downtown Houston one summer day I'd never experienced it. The number 2 piston came apart just under the ring lands. The top of the piston stayed up top in the cylinder. The rod and pin smashed the crap out of the cylinder wall, then the rod snapped off about an inch above the rod bearing, leaving me on the side of the road in a cloud of smoke. I 've never seen or heard of the car again since I sold it to a Dental College student from UT. I was the 3rd owner of the car which was bought at the Chrysler Plymouth dealer in downtown Houston. His Dad picked up the car with a forklift service tiltbed truck and took it to his shop in the Morthshore area of Houston. I wonder...
Nice ride! Here is the website to a gentleman that can turn your generator into an alternator. You can go 12v, or keep your 6v system
A lot of great flathead mopar info here. He's on the HAMB also. This is the best looking flathead I've ever seen. http://www.50plymouth.com/02-hom/home.htmlb
Wow! this post brought out all the Mopar guys. That looks like a sweet coupe, love the color. I sent you a pm on a dual carb manifold I want to sell. Best of luck with your new baby.~Sololobo~
Happy to see another flathead six kept under the hood! Here's mine... I've had a ball with this little engine. After eight years, I still can't believe all the attention it gets... It's got a Langdon HEI ignition, and it starts instantly, I can't let go of the key fast enough. Edgy 9:1 compression head, tube headers, vintage Edmunds dual intake, 3/4 cam, etc. The best thing you can do for your flathead is OVERDRIVE. IMHO, it is what makes these engines road worthy. Mid 50's mopar R-10 overdrive transmissions are a direct swap with no other modifications other than the wiring and lockout cable. Drive lines are the same except for short wheelbase cars. My '50 will cruise 70-75mpg all day long. There's enough torque to pull even in third overdrive to pass or make climbs uphill without shifting down. I've driven my car through every kind of road, weather condition, traffic situation, etc, and have never felt like the car couldn't keep up. Last June I drove the car 3,300 miles from Idaho to Tulsa, OK and it was a blast. I have a bunch of youtube clips of my car on the road, etc, linked from my website under the "sound" page. Lots of other info there too, including all the suppliers I used for my engine. Looking forward to seeing your hopped up six come to life... Pete
Those are GREAT CARS... I love Fords and Chevys but those late 40's MOPARS are a lot more advanced IMHO. Neat...
Hi i like your car it looks really cool.I recently bought my 50 business coupe and have started to work on it. I have a original flat head six and trans from the car , i am going to run a 318 and a automatic. Good luck with your car. Rick.
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