Some of you Chrysler flat 6 guys may recall some montlhs ago me posting a problem I was having with my daughter's '56 Plymouth not wanting to turn over after I had attempted to give it a compression test and used a gauge hose threaded adapter that was too long that #1 piston promptly ran into. Well, today I finally had some time to pull the timing cover off and low and behold saw the view shown in the first pic attached. After carefully extracting all the pieces and ******ing up every small metal fragment I could with my trusty magnetic wand, I loaded all the bits into the timing cover (see pic #2). Note the tear in the cover below the seal and it even got the backside of the oil slinger! The cam gear's mounting flange was in four pieces. After removing all the carnage, the view was as in pic #3. The oiling tube seems to have been pushed against the front of the engine when all hell broke loose and I imagine that it's outer end should be in line with the middle of the crank gear. So, boys and girls, make sure you check the length of your compression gauge adapters before you do your next test! I have two questions of you more knowledgeable guys (and gals!): Is is possible to install the new cam gear with a br*** drift and hammer or will I have to take the cam out and use my press? Should the oiling tube be bent out to locate it's end in the middle of the crank gear as I previously mentioned? Many thanks in advance for these and any other observations you may have! Regards, Dave.
I think you can get the timing gear on if you heat it first. Chill the cam snout with an upside-down can of duster spray (like is used to clean keyboards) or some dry ice. The gear will slip on nicely. I also believe that the oil tube should point to the middle of the gear. Are you going to install new parts? PM me if you want used.
I don't know but on most flathead engines I have ever seen the sparkplug is over the exhaust valve. If you tried turning the engine with the air adapter against the exhaust valve, that might cause the timing gear to break from trying to turn the cam and push the valve open. Stopping the piston would not stress the timing gear. If you pushed that hard on the cam gear, what happened to the valve? Lifter? Cam? I would think you need to look more closely at your engine and check carefully for damage.
Good points Rich! I did pull the plug to check and THOUGHT I was looking at the top of the piston (which appeared to only have a small imprint in the carbon from the plug) but it could indeed have been a valve. It would be worth the cost of a head gasket just to make sure (and maybe the valve adjustment side panels too!) Thanks muchly for your input! Regards, Dave.
I have a spare engine so I am going to provide AV8 Dave with some used parts. Last night I pulled the crank pulley off. It was a bit of a PITA. My regular puller would not fit so I modified one of my Harley pullers by drilling out two of the four mounting bolts and that worked fine. The timing cover had plenty of goop on it and the crank seal looked like new, so someone might have repaired a leak. The timing chain and gears look good wear-wise, but I don't know if the timing chain has too much slop. See the photo. Can I get the cam gear off without pulling the camshaft? I suspect the only way would be to heat it, and I don't know if that is a good idea. I suspect that I will have to pull the cam. Might not be a bad idea as then I will know what the pistons/bores look like.
Some progress: I got the head off. It was a real MF as the head bolts were rusted in but good. A few broke. Also ripped open my finger. I was pulling on the breaker bar, thinking, gee I should remove the plugs because the breaker is going to let go and I will slice my hand open. So, I did not stop to remove the plugs because I was in the grovve with the breaker bar and I would have had to walk all of 6 feet to get a plug socket, but the plugs are probably rusted in so what the heck I will just keep at it. So of course the next head bolt I tried to open snapped and I got cut. And it turned out that the plugs were finger tight anyway. Oh well. The head came off real nice after I got all the head bolts out. There is very little ridge in the cylinders, but a lot of carbon. I have not yet looked to see if the motor was overbored. Whoever said that the plugs are not on top of the pistons was right on. There is a pipe plug dead center on number six hole - the piston is under there. The plugs are off to the side near the valves. Now I have to find my valve spring compressor (have not used it in many, many years) so I can pull the cam. I will try to get the cam gear off first. I will probably pull the cam anyway so that I have a core ready in case I ever decide to get a regrind.
More progress: the timing gear and chain are off. The timing gear pops right off, so I you will not have any trouble getting it back on without removing your cam. Just start it true, tap a little with a plastic mallet and draw it on with the mounting bolts. The timing gear shows some tooth wear. The tooth profile looks all right (not worn to a razor point) but you can see where the timing chain teeth ride. See pictures. Interestingly this motor is frozen. I noticed that number six has a divot in the cylinder wall that looks like it got hit by a wrist pin. I also removed the oil tube. Here is a picture of where it is aimed. It is aimed just past the inside crank gear teeth. I guess that if it was aimed at the middle, most of the oil would miss the chain by shooting into the groove. Let me know if you need any valves, as you might have bent the ones that hit the compression tester. The timing cover, tining gear, chain, oil tube and screw are all ready to go. PM me where you want it shipped. I'll wait until I hear if you want a pair of valves, too.
Interesting that my parts are slightly different than yours. My gears are grooved in the middle, and there is a wide center link in the timing chain that rides in this groove. Also, my motor does not have the oil slinger (unless the last person who had it apart forgot to put it back). Does that mean that you need my crank gear, too? I have never pulled one off - how bad is that job - does nayone have some hints?
OK, I think we are all set. I pulled an intake and an exhaust valve. These were the toughest valves to remove I have ever encountered. The keepers are all frozen to the spring retainer plate. Except on the valves that are completely frozen in place. I could only rotate the cam about a half turn. Past that and it locks up tight, presumably because of the stuck valves. I could get the spring compressed with my valve spring compressor, but then the valve keepers would not come free from the retainer. PITA!!! So I could only work with a few valves, those that had the lifters down. One exhaust came out, and then I struggled some more to get an intake out; finally I was successful. The valves were not damaged by removal, but you will need to lap them in your motor. There was no sludge at all inside the lifter galley. Kind of unusual for these cars. I don't know what happened to this engine, but it must have been something. Maybe it was badly overheating, and then it threw the piston pin. Or vice versa. I won't know until I take it all down, and at this point that is going to be way in the future as this motor has been way too painful to break down. The good news is that I have everything you need: timing cover, tining gear, chain, squirt tube, intake and exhaust valve.
You can get a new timing gear and chain at powerwagons.com. As for the oil tube, the earlier motors had the tube and later went to an oil slinger, the tube is better in my opinion.
John: Just came on and read your last five entries! HOLY S--T! You've been busting your *** BIG TIME on my behalf!!! I'll send you a P.M. IMMEDIATELY!!! Dave.
Dave, be sure to support the cam while installing the gear so you don't drive the freeze plug out of the back of the block ....
rustingbucket: Thanks for your input! It seems odd that my engine would have both the tube and the slinger. I guess Chrysler did odd stuff the same way as Ford did! Thanks again! Regards, Dave.
Hey no problemo. It's been fun and gave me an excuse to dive into that motor. That motor does not want to come apart! Every single item has been a PITA. I have never seen anything like it. LOL
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