There is some property out in the boonebocks that may come up for sale. It supposidly has several hundred cars scattered across it from along time ago. If someone were able to buy this, what would the problems/issues be with this? I don't think it was ever a junkyard, just a bunch of old cars. Advice?
I'd say it depends on what kind of pricks are in the Zoning Enforcement office down at City Hall. It's possible the buyer could get a Nasty-Gram from them saying "Clean up the property by XX date, or face fines." But if you bought it, I think everyone here would hold your feet to the fire if you didn't at least start parting them out! That way you make the problem go away before it becomes a problem. -Brad
It's called disclosure,IF the current owner is butting heads with the City/County/Zoning they would have to disclose that. If that's the case and you are serious about buying the property,make a deal based on getting rid of SOME of the vehicles by an agreed date with the "problem" agency. If there are no problems with the cars being there...then you would make an offer on the property WITH the cars included and you could be neck-deep in projects!
Sometimes it's don't ask, don't tell. My buddy got a lot in a county tax auction and it came with about half a dozen rough cars. He hauled most of them out and eventually parted them out. Given the real estate market, you could probably use it as leverage to reduce the price of the land, too.
Buyer beware. If it goes that far, when you go to closing you are going to be asked to sign a form accepting all of that stuff on the property. If it should include dumped or spilled chemicals/oil, etc. you might become responsible for environmental cleanup sometime in the future. Have a lawyer look it over before you buy.
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="ProgId" content="Word.Document"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 9"><meta name="Originator" content="Microsoft Word 9"><link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/DD4DF%7E1.9B5/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_filelist.xml"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <woNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style>Check with your local zoning gestapo, give them a hypothetical situation and find out. Like what was mentioned, if there is a problem with the property, it should be disclosed as part of the sale.
Depending on how old the cars are and what kind of shape they are in you could probably sell a bunch of them and pay for the land then build a nice shop and build a few for yourself.
29Nash has made the most important point of all. Nothing is more expensive than environmental cleanup. The "NEW" owner is the person responsible. The EPA does not care who did it (especially when the WHO is a private citizen), only that once the hazards (a half a can of waste oil or a spilled lead/acid battery can create lots of problems if they determine that it has entered the groundwater. Most 'cures' involved total scraping of the topsoil down to a level determined by EPA testers....you'll pay much more than the property is worth. I'd be moving very cautiously were I in your shoes. Disclosure about any pending investigations is important, but it only takes one twit on the phone to get those 'guvmint' men on your tail. dj
Just reread my piece AFTER I posted it and noticed that I missed the completion of my "once they discover..." sentence. I guess y'all can draw a reasonable conclusion of where I was going with that.... dj
I think the most expensive problem you might face is enviornmental issues. Remediation is very expensive. make sure the property is clean.
I agree with 29Nash. There was a place around here that had plenty of old cars on it. (Henry J's, and Willys mostly) When the owner died, someone came sniffing around and it became a "super fund" site with soil contamination issues. His daughter ended up being kicked off the property as it was "too hazardous to live on": even though she had lived there all of her life. She ended up with zero and living on welfare, if I remember it correctly.
Once you buy or otherwise assume control/ownership of a property, the existing problems now become yours. You want a full disclosure by the current owner that the vehicles are on the property and that they go with the property, assuming he does not want them. Personally, I would be very leery of this deal. With scrap bringing very low prices these days, it will definitely cost you more to rid yourself of the cars and trucks than the money would be worth, even assuming there are no environmental issues existing. If they do, your 'great deal" may literally cost you million$. It would be a hell of a lot cheaper to simply ask the property owner if any of the vehicles are for sale and then buy what you want. It does not matter is it ever was a junkyard or not, it's the presence of the vehicles that matters. And Missouri government officials have been known around the country to be complete dickheads about things like this. Don't let the lure of a few "free" vehicles blind you here. Caveat emptor.
cash purchase has nothing to do with liability. If you buy it and the land is found contaminated you are on the hook.
And the state and county got mega bucks from the Feds for a clean up that in most cases never occurs.
Are your boondocks close to my boondocks? I've not heard of any problems around my immediate area concerning cars, they have too many chicken houses to worry about.
You should be able to do a bit of quiet snooping and find out if there are any known issues about contamination. 20/30 years ago it wouldn't have been an issue as long as it wasn't a working wrecking yard but now one never knows. If the cars have been gone for severa years and the owner at the time wasn't given notice to get rid of them it probably isn't an issue to the local authorities. I'd walk the place if I could and see if it looks like there are spots where large quanities of oil and what not were dumped though. Back when a lot of guys just took the drain oil out and dumped it on the ground "out back".
right now i'm in the middle of a sale of 2.75 acres of commercial property. i have roughly 100 car left to dispose of. just went through a soil evaluation and came up clean. 30 years ago i would have considered buying said property with all the cars using them as a bargaining chip,nowdays no way in hell! is their a well on it? better have it checked because it costs just as much to de-commision a well as it does to drill it. i have 2 wells that have carbon-tet. contamination and luckily for me the responsable party is paying that bill $20,000! all the work being done for the sale is documented in case later someone want to know and not doing it they levy stiff fines against the property deed. be careful!
5-6 years back a local guy bought an old building that was an old gas station at one time back in the late 60's/early 70's. Paid 60k for the property. Several years later neighbors starting complainig about smell's etc. I can't remember the exact occurance but eventually the epa got involved. Turns out after the gas station shut down they just left the tanks in the ground and they still had some gas/muckin them that leaked out. It cost him near $200k to have the tanks removed and the dirt hauled away. The dirt had to be hauled to a special land fill?? approximately 200 miles away. Buyer beware.
I heard the property has some car's on it called a 'Cuda or something like that. A friend looked them over and said something about a 426 himeeee or something like that. I'm not into that newer stuff.
I buy property and companies for the $30B company I work for. Get a phase one environmental assessment done. Write it in as part of the offer - clear phase one contingent to close.
You guys forget he is in Missouri..................prob not much for zoning or enforcement! But still listen to these guys, good tips.
Ah, contraire! Missouri is one of the toughest States, and they are huge on zoning and the Gestapo-style enforcement that goes with that! Or, did you forget a little thing called dioxin, that shut down a small town called Times Beach, in MO?? Took years and million$ of dollars, just because a local waste oil guy used prohibited stuff to oil down local gravel roads.
The EPA does not care who did it (especially when the WHO is a private citizen), only that once the hazards (a half a can of waste oil or a spilled lead/acid battery can create lots of problems Yup. Disclosure doesn't count unless the owner knew (or should have known) about the problem and withheld it from you. Even then, the best you'll get it a judgment against him - and how to collect it? The moment EPA finds out there have been cars there, they're going to test - and they don't need your permission. ATF, motor oil, gasoline, antifreeze, lead from batteries all go into the water table. If you want the cars, buy the cars (not the land). if you want the land, make the guy adjust the price based on what a clean-up may cost (probably far more than the price), or remove them at his expense.
Hmm..... Lots of thoughts, that I was afraid of! Figures! Where it is at and the county it is in prolly don't even know it's there. But I do understand the whole idea of a prick neighbor getting the EPA involved. I was just "hoping"!
Hey don't give up. Do some checking out that doesn't cost you any money. My cousin that has a scrap yard here just got a clean check up and If you walked the grounds with me you wouldn't think this could be true! I do construction and I dug 2 old gas tanks 10,000 gallons worth, out of a station site, I had to dig with a backhoe where the gal with the test vials in hand wanted me to, and she collected silvery mud. Then I backfilled the hole. Months later, they had us dig about 4 truck loads of material from one area of the tank site and we took it to the owners pasture and was placed in a large plastic "tub" we made with plas. and hay bales. He had to turn the soil with a tractor and bucket for a year or so and then he was good to go. Cost him about $1k. By the way, is your boondocks near my boondocks???
i love boondocks!! if you need a friend to go search for the saints Ill join you this summer..!!! Here boondocks, come here boondocks. Give up your cars. Good luck man. Sorry a little crazy from hunting all weekend I guess.. Hope it all works out for ya
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