How heavy is a typical Pontiac 350/400? How heavy is a typical 350 Chevy? I know the Pontiac motor is a bit wider, but is it longer? How much? I am considering a Pontiac V-8 because it seems to be the most parts-available of the non-Chevy V-8s and I like the way they run. So here is my last ignorant question: the main thing I like about Pontiacs (compared to Chevies) is that they have a lot of torque down low. Stock mid-'70s Pontiac 350s hit 275 ft. lbs at only 1800 RPM, but same-year Chevy 350s are 260 @ 2400RPM. Is there a relatively cheap/easy way to get the Chevy's torque at a much lower RPM? (Cam?) I'm not looking to build a race motor, but I want something with a lot of grunt down low so I can just loaf along at low RPMs. And I don't want a 455 because I'd like to get something resembling decent gas mileage.
In stock form, the Pontiac 350 outweighs the Chevy 350 by about 40lbs. Here's a site to scope out for other specifics if ya wanna 'stare and compare' a bit more... http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/Engines/swapchart.html You can get a decent amount of torque out of a small block Chevy by running a mild "RV" or "4x4" type of cam, dual plane intake manifold such as an Edelbrock Performer, a small four barrel carb with vacuum secondaries (390 or 600 Holley), small tube headers and a conservative advance curve. If you want MORE low-end grunt, run a 400 SBC...it's a natural truck and heavy-car engine!
That site you linked for me is awesome! I thought perhaps an RV cam might get me close, but wasn't sure. I haven't seen anything with a 400 Chevy in it for sale for a long time, but I'll certainly keep my eye out.
Don't count out a 472/500 Caddy. Relatively the same weight of a SBC, if you use an aluminum intake. Gear it properly, you can use the low end torque to maximize mpg.
A Pontiac is the way to go. It is a little longer than a SBC as it has larger bore spacing. It's a great motor for most any application from cruiser to a 6 second over 200mph stormer. If you have any Pontiac questions related to interchange, etc, let me know. Good luck with you build. Steve Barcak www.pontiacheaven.org <DIR>Hosting 11th annual Pontiac Heaven, show, swap, drags, party and all around good time. Saturday April 4, 2009 at Speedworld near Phoenix, Az Also hosting- 7th annual Nostalgia drags, show and swap coming Sunday April 5, 2009 to Speedworld. Phoenix, Az </DIR>
Tis a no brain'er! Go with the Poncho power and you'll be glad you did. Can't kick on mine in any way.... Pontiac Slim
Slim and Krate! What are you guys doing? Don't lead him into believing that Pontiacs are good motors! That means there will be less for us Go pre 72 if you can, if given the choice of 350 or 400, go with the 400. Local craigslist has a guy with a 350 Ponch running but smokes for $100.00 They make all sorts of parts for them too.....and after years of SBC's I have to say that pulling an intake without removing a distributor or needing a harmonic balancer puller sure was a nice break. And then a head change was all I needed to change compression ratios and I was converted!
The reason the 350 pontiac make more torque is that it has a smaller bore and longer stroke than a 350 chev. A 389,400 ,455 poncho will make rpm faster than a comparable big block chev. There is also a 301 with a 4 inch bore and 3 inch stroke it will respond to better heads carb and cam. It will then turn so many rpm that it will fly apart rods sticking out of the oil pan ect. Im a big fan of pontiac mill,s myself. OldWolf
you can put other pontiac heads on a 301 but intakes wont fit. the 301 is unique due to its deck height. pontiac 400s are awesome engines tho! run one of them if you can!
If you're gonna spend the $$$ to rebuild one, don't mess with the 350, just get a 389 or 400. Pontiacs all cost the same to rebuild, so go for the cubes! Who knows, maybe you'll luck out and find a 455! Talk about a stump puller!!!
Right you have to make your intake. At present i have a 55 GMC with a factory 287 and a 69 firebird with a350 also have a 69 400 engine with a stick bell flywheel ect.It was used being as a LP power unit to pull a irrigation pump! Have some blew up 301,s also OldWolf
Thanks for the advice, but you guys don't have to convince me that Ponchos rule - I've owned 1968 and '70 LeMans convertibles (350), a '75 Grandville Brougham convertible (400), and a '71 GrandPrix SJ (455) and loved all of them. The Grand Prix was bone stock except a ram air cam and it routinely got 16 mpg around town. (Of course, that was on super unleaded, but still...) Hell, I even like the 301 in my clapped-out 1980 Olds Holiday 88 coupe. Never touched it, let it sit for months at a time, and it always ran like a top. I became convinced Pontiacs rule when I needed an exhaust manifold for the 1975 400- 4 in a full-size car and was able to use a leftover 1968 350-2 from a midsize because they were exactly the same. Gotta love that ****! (Especially after life with my wife's Cougar where buying a water pump was an excercise in "which 351? What year? What's it out of? There are 3 different pumps for that motor in that car.") The extra 2.5" length might be a challenge but I'm definitely considering it. Now it's just a matter of finding a donor. Next question: it's a '51 Chevy. Personally I'd like a Pontiac motor in a Chevy, but would it hurt resale down the road?
I don't know that I would consider "resale" value, build what you want, "resale is for restorers"... I don't that this hobby ever makes monetary sense. s.
I make money on every single car I sell EXCEPT the one that I built "the way I want it because I'm never going to sell it" (which of course I sold a couple years after that). I always sell them sooner or later. I'm not flipping them or anything, otherwise I'd be building fibergl*** '32 Fords or Mustangs or something, but when you can only afford to have one old car at a time, a few years is about the longest I can manage to hold on to anything. (And I'm not bragging about the making money part- I LOSE all of the time I put into building them, but I justify it all to my wife by pointing out that the money always comes back in the long run!)
LOL join the club, My 50 sedan has a poncho 350 in it. Probably caus it's a firebird sub frame. It's got some 400 heads on it and a torker single plane intake on it. It fired up and didn't fill the garage with smoke so I'll run it. Hopefully that intake won't hurt to much driving around town.
I wasn't going to say anything because subframing seems like a dirty word on this board, but mine has an '82 Grand Prix front end under it.
Meh, I think the jury is still out on that one. If Mine wasn't already sub-framed when I found it, I probably wouldn't do it. It's kinda tough to get the front clip mounted up, but not to bad. Yours "should" fit better than mine, isn't that a G body? Which should have a narrower track width than mine, and actually fit the wheels under the fenders. Good luck and happy holidays
Run the Pontiac it was designed for low end torque. They look great and run great. True a 400 head would bolt on a 301 block and true the intake would not fit because the 301 is a short deck block by 1 inch also the 301 has different water p***ages in the block that the 400 head gasket would not cover. Good luck with your project.
I say go for the Pontiac if you want. The pre-smog motors are starting to dry up around here. I have 2 350' Pontiacs, a 66' 389, a 69 400, 68 400 and a 70 455(small valve). The 455 actually got pretty good milage considering it was pushing around a Bonneville(got mid teens avg.) but it was tuned good and had a fresh rebuild on the quadrajunk. When we dropped it in the 69 Bird ragtop, it had soooo much torque that it actually popped the trunklid open and twisted the body so the doors wouldn't open. Subframe connectors went on after that and no more concrete launches with the Hoosiers!
Back in the 70's, I was a GTO guy. Pontiacs are tire frying torque monsters compared to a SBC. A tri-powered 428 can scare you.... In 1981 I bought a book from Pete McCarthy at the Pomona swap meet. I used it for reference to buy rare parts for resale, but I wish it had been in print during my GTO era. It would've saved me lots of trial and error. It's called the "Pontiac Racer's & High Performance Handbook" by Pete McCarthy and John Angeles. It has pictures of all the rare and good stuff, including cars. There's stamp codes and casting #'s of everything that will go fast. Lots of tips, tricks and history you won't find elsewhere. Visit Pete here: http://www.petemccarthy.com/
Just found this at Year One. Tons of Poncho-fo by Pete McCarthy http://www.yearone.com/updatedsinglepages/Id_info/pontiacengineid/pontengid1.html
The 400 has many benifits and tons of bolt on power goodies. Just build it to breath deep and turn slow. They will last and give much power.
I appreciate all of the advice, guys, but as I said I ALREADY LIKE PONTIAC MOTORS! I have had a 301, two 350s, a 400, and a 455. I KNOW a Pontiac 400 will spit out a Chevy 350 (although that's a bit of apples and oranges, isnt' it?) **THREE 350s. I just remembered a '75 LeMans I had in high school!** I just wanted to know how much bigger and heavier a Pontiac V-8 is. Fat Hack gave me that info. (I am surprised that the width is so close, I always thought the Pontiacs looked much wider but I guess it was he extra height that was fooling my eyes.) Pontiac lovers may rest ***ured, if I find a good one cheap it will be going into my car. Budget is my primary concern, but now I know I can cast a wider net for donors. Thanks to all.
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