Hey, got a new project going on, Im dropping a small block gasp chevy into the 50 plymouth and although the motor fits Ive run into an issue with steering clearence. I already called Fatman about their rack and pinion kit and they already told me that it wouldnt work and I should just put a new stub on the front which I aint doin. The issue is with the rack used, a cavalier rack, which has the center take off tie rods but they sit in front of the rack meaning that the rack itself wants to live somewhere close to the oil sump (actually inside it). So now Im scratching my head about what to do for steering since the stock steering wont fit and neither will the only aftermarket kit I know of. I considered a custom width mustang 2 rack from Chris Alston and even though its pricey it is small at 15.5" from inner tie rod to inner tie rod its 550 bucks. I figured the Fatman kit wont be much cheaper after all is said and done but Im wondering if anyone has another solution to this problem before I drop the coin on a rack like the Alston one. Chime in if you have an idea cause Im pretty much stuck at this point, my brain is worn out from trying to figure this out.
Having not played with a sbc, is a rear sump pan available? A rear sump would solve the problem, even a center sump might get by. Then the rack can mount behind the cross member and in front of the sump. You can get a rear sump for a small block Mopar....... Gene
Use a 55-56 chevy. exhaust manifold. Dumps in front. Good exhaust guy can snake a pipe around the steering box. I used a chevy 501 steering box. Almost a bolt on. Splines are even the same. Gary
Sucks you went with a sbc. I put a sbm in my '50 Dodge and didn't have to alter anything except for mounts. Good luck.
OK I was just going to lurk tonight but i got to respond to this. I put a small block ford in my 49 wayfarer and ran into steering clearance problems. What I did was a lot of work but it works very well. I used a 67 mustang box and the slave cyl power steering. I narrowed the inside of those big fat frame members about 1 3/4 inches on both sides that gave me the same dimensions inside to inside rails as a 67 farelane and just installed all of that steering linkage to the dodge suspension and spindles, that gave me all kinds of room for everything I even used the Mustang front springs which slammed the front and put 3" lowering blocks on the rear. That vintage Dodge and Plymouth are really good cars to work with and are way under priced on the market. I'm a ford guy but working on that car put me in the MOPAR closet.
Did a swap a few years ago, a 389 Poncho into a 55 Chevy. The tie rod and the pan interferred big time. Ended up pulling the pan and found the tie rod cleared everything except the pan. Wouldn't work that way, kept leaking oil onto my buddys parents driveway. Welded a tube thru the sides of the pan, removed the tie rod, installed the pan and reinstalled the tie rod going thru the pan. Worked slick. Just had to make sure there waw enough clearance for turning and engine movement.
Matt, I have a rear sump 347 Pontiac in a 49 Dodge with Fatman's Rack and Pinion Kit ! Good Luck, Sonny
remake your motor mounts to move the engine to the pass side about an inch and a half. That way it will clear the stock steering. When you et all your stuff bolted on and around the engine, the offset isn't apparent. Lots of folks have used cavie racks but you must then modify the oilpan.
Thanks for the replies. After scratching my head and calling every company I know of I think I have it a toss up between 3 different ways. First one is the Alston rack. Second is a custom rack from unisteer and is based on the caviler rack but modified so the tie rods attatch on the opposite side of the rack than they do stock. They sell a kit for a chevelle that uses a similar style rack I have the option of tie rod length and inner tie rod end spacing for bump, and can have the pinion angle and tie rod location clocked anyway I want which is pretty damn nice. Downside of this is that they said it would be between 400 and 1000 bucks and couldnt give me a firm estimate which has me a bit nervous about it. Ill have to weigh the pros vs cons and go from there. The third option is a low mounted vega box and keep it tradional if all else fails. I definitely have the motor pushed to the passenger side as much as possible and the headers just dont give me the room for the stock steering. I do have a question though and that is about bump steer. I was wondering if anyone had an idea about what the proper inner tie rod spacing should be. Should I be figuring it from the width of the rear control arm bushings, the front ones or neither? I dont have a bumpsteer gauge and dont feel like buying one so if anyone conclusivly knows (not just a guess) and could pass that info along it would be helpful. Ill get this thing whipped soon enough Im sure so I can get onto more exciting things like getting the car finished and back on the road. Thanks
i put a sbc in my 52 plymouth and used the stock steering. you are more than welcome to come by and check it out i'm in sacramento also.
I wish I could pull that off but I have block huggers and they interfere with the stock steering column. Other than that our motors are sitting about the same from what I can tell. More or less if anyone happens to have a pic of a v8 and a rack to see how it sits it would help a ton. Im going off what Fatman told me and maybe it is possible and they were for some reason talking me out of buying it in order to upsale and in the process losing buisness. I was a bit confused cause the measurements I did myself look like the sump on the flatty 6 and the v8 are almost dead on where they sit in the chassis. With that in mind I dont see why it wouldnt work but it would with the sixer. Ill search for more pics of the install even though they are few and far between.
A couple of folks advised use of a circa-55 Chevy exhaust manifold on the driver's side. They are 100% dead on correct. This puts the outlet in front of the steering box and there is no need to offset the motor. Then there is no reason to swap out the steering. I did this myself back when I was 16 and I dropped a 283 in my 1950 Plymouth. I still have that manifold; saved it in case I ever wanted to do that swap again.
Im sorry I shoulda said what year motor it is. Its one of the new small blocks out of a 2006 chevy truck and the exhaust manifolds stock dont fit at all so I bought some blockhuggers. They fit nicely and clear the frame ect but all of the exhuast options for it get in the way. BTW the new motors are really cheap and make good horsepower. I got the motor for $600 and it had 13000 miles on it. It also makes a little over 300 hp in stock form and I assume with a new cam and the headers should make closer to 350. Sorry if I confused anyone about that.
nope, they actually look like big block headers or small block ford with round ports. Evenly spaced apart which would make them nice for fabbing headers but nothing from earlier small blocks bolt up at all. They are like ls1's but they have cast iron blocks and its a 327 instead of a 350 but the price is right, gets over 25 mpg and can be hopped up to over 400hp with the right cam and a set of ported stock heads. They are unbelievably cheap and plentiful too cause they come in every GM truck made after 98. Dimensionally they are a little smaller than a traditional small block and quite a bit lighter too so its a total win-win situation except for clearing a early mopar steering box...
Can't lop the stock shaft off the box, and put a couple U-joints in to get you around? Or does it hit the box, too. I sold a few Mopar racks of some sort - old dealer NOS, never could find the part number anywhere - but they had regular short tie rod ends and a left side steering input. Looked like they'd be easy to adapt to other cars.
nope the steering box sits right in front of two exhaust ports so it cant be used at all, I wish I could but its just not gonna happen. Im just gonna run the MII rack, the one from unisteer is gonna take a while to get and its expensive. Ill take some pics and show what type of clearance I have and its not much in the spots I need it.
have you been on the p15 board? http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/ i seem to remember some threads on there about rack and pinion stuff and alot of the guys did not like the cavaliar rack. post some pics of your project. where are you in sac?
Ill get some pics up in a few, the car is at my shop in Rancho Cordova, California Rewire. And yeah the motor is pushed over to the passenger side as far as it can go (theres about a 1/2" between the frame and exhaust and may need to have some clearence made). Im pretty certain Im goin with the Alston rack though, the more I measure the more it seems like its the most compact and functional way to go.
i just broke the power cord to my laptop so i will be off line for a couple of days. i already ordered one so when it gets here i will return. feel free to give me a call 952-7208 glendale
does anyone have a photo of the fatman kit installed? Im hoping that the guy I talked to was an idiot and it would in fact fit, but Im hoping I could see a picture before I come to that conclusion. Even a link to someone elses car would help cause Ive searched just about everywhere I could think of and Im coming up empty handed. Hell even fatman themselves do not have a picture of it installed.
This approach is different and requires some fabrication but it's working OK on my 40 Plymouth. The steering gear is early 60's full size Ford and the center mounted idler is home brew.
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