FNG here with a lot of ?'s 1958 Apache

Little about my project
I aquired a 1958 Apache step side a couple of days ago and have become extremely curious... I would like to build a streetable cruiser (read not show car) What really makes me excited about this build, is that I will be able to help my old man realize a dream.. He has always wanted to build a BIG BLOCK truck. I remember him telling me stories of greenvalley speedway in Grapevine or Colleyville Tx. Anyway he built and ran small blocks all his life, so I know have the platform to build his big block.

So I have been reading and searching and would appreciate any help
with the following questions

Which frames have people successfully swapped under the 58/59 apache
anyone have pics of their swaps?

What other websites would you suggest (not trying to be rude on this one, just thought there may be additional sites I should know about)

What bumpers have been swapped onto a 58/59, I ask because mine doesnt have any and they appear to be difficult to track down?

OK and the grande finale for now is it really imposible to locate a fleetside bed?

Thanks in advance guys
Later
Marc

marc.zett@gmail.com

 

Marc, first off welcome to the hamb, and yes it is possible to find a fleetside! They are hard to find but if you can't find one, I will be able to track one down for you down there. My parents live in arlington so I know alot of the yards and alot of people down there. For the frame, you need to decide about your desires for the car, if you want a cruiser with new tech., then go with a late 80's to early 90's frame, but if you want it traditional, I would just reinforce your stock frame. For the motor, I would use a 454 because they are alot easier to get parts for(in a parts store that is) and that is coming from a manager of a parts store. Really, it is your truck so build it the way you want to and mainly just have fun with it. If you need anything let me know. Ty

 

whats up 58',,heres some pics of my truck,Its a 57'cab but Iliked the 58'nose and the bed isa 59' fleet apache.My truck has a hieits front clip the frame is boxed and I build the air ride out of parts from air technoigy,firestone,viarr,as far as your big block question,if you have time save your money and rebuild your frame like I did,it will mean more to you than buying one and your frame is strong enough.Well hit me back if I can help you in any way,o and by the way BROTHERS TRUCKS has almost everything you will need to rebuild your truck,,,later dave

 

Classic truck put out an article several years ago where they put a camaro subframe on one of these trucks. The process looked fairly straightforward and basic. Why hassle with changing out the whole frame? A running camaro (75-81) is dirt cheap and easy to find. You end up with power steering, power disc brakes, and best of all, an engineered setup for that rat motor you're gonna drop!

Fleetside beds can be found, but they aren't a dime a dozen. The great part about those beds is that the parts to rebuild them are out there.

 

Welcome to the hamb!if you really want a big block i would use an early 68-70 nova camaro,ventura clip with rear steering.the rear steer clips look cleaner when finished in my opinion,and allow you to pick up parts fairly easy from any parts house.you will have to fab some stuff up to mount the sheetmetal and bumpers but it really is not too bad to do.you can modify the stock column to work with the box as well.do a search i believe lux blue has a great post on this swap.as for the rear bumper they are not that hard too come by and you do not have too have a stock one too look good,i have seen people use alot of different bumpers that look good.its your truck use what you like!!!!!

 

Thanks guys I like the camero idea electodude,just kicking around ideas for now.
dg I would like a lead on a bed if you have one,
thanks
marc

 

big block will go right in there with the stock frame, my first 396 swap took about 36 hours, and I got some sleep. A subframe is helpful to lower the truck, and if you like a cushy ride and all those modern comforts, but it's certainly not necessary.

I guess I'm sitting on some gold if you can't find bumpers or fleetside beds.

 

I learned to drive out in the pasture with a '58 Chevy stepside.

Cool old trucks.

 

Im looking to buy one of these. I just love em. Gotta be one of the nicest trucks ever made. I like the info about the swaps. You should be able to get a junked out Camero for $50-$100, maybe free if your not in a hurry. I got a running 76 for $500, so the deals are out there.

 

Gibbons Fiberglass sells kit to convert your step to fleetside

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width=387 bgColor=#ffffff border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top bgColor=#f5f5f5><TD width=50>CH525</TD><TD vAlign=top width=225>1955-59 Complete Cameo Box Conversion Kit Includes: 2 Bed Sides, 2 Front Bed Caps, Tailgate Cover, 1 Smooth Rear Bumper and 2 Tailgate Housings</TD><TD vAlign=top width=31>$1500</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

repop bumpers are out there as well.
Brothers is a good place to start.

 

I just bought the truck in the pics below. It has a 396 in it. The frame is a 1980 Chevy Short Bed 2 wd. Looks like it was done pretty well. The first thing that is going to happen is that it will be lowered. The previous owner was using the truck to pull a car trailer. Heavy duty springs on the back and on top of the axles. Even wired up so you can use a winch on the trailer.

 

MAR-K in okla city sells the beds.

 

Squirrel is right, there's not much to dropping the big block into the factory frame rails. What becomes a pain is when you start adding up the costs to rebuild the factory front end. I remember that in '88 when I put new bearing and seals on the frontend it came to almost $200! Just to restore the crappy ride! $200 camaroes are all around, and those cushy extras are pretty nice. If you want to keep the factory setup then Posies sells some nice springs that'll go a long ways to smoothing out your ride.

It may not be "nostalgic", but my idea of hot rodding is taking what you can get for cheap or free and making something worthwhile out of it. Anyone can open their wallet, rodders open their minds...just my opinion, but hey, what do I know? Either way, get out there and get it on the road, then send us some pics.

 

I've got a 57 that I put a Volare sub frame under. It worked good as far as ease of installation but they present some problems with engine installation. They have a huge steering box that requires that you off set the engine about 2 inches and that is with a small block. I have a friend that put a big block in one but it was a pain in the butt. The one nice feature of the Volare is they use torsion bars for the suspension and they are adjustable so you can set your ride height. I used LMC truck for a lot of the sheet metal parts that I was missing with good results.
Later,
Dick

 

The bearings usually aren't bad yet, but the kingpins and spring bushings usually are, and they cost money. Also the steering boxes are usually in need of a rebuild or replacement, tie rod ends wear out, etc.

You can also spend well over $200 rebuilding that 30-40 year old camaro subframe, and installing it definitely takes some skill or $$$ to have someone do it for you.

 

Stovebolt.com is a site devoted specifically to vintage GM trucks. Lots of good information there. Hope this helps. Ken

1953 Tin Woody Chevy Handyman wagon
1959 Apache shortbox stepside
1959 Apache shortbox Fleetside 4WD

 

hey bro welcome to the hamb!

I used to work at Fatmans and I can tell you that you can put a camaro stub under your truck, but for just a little bit more bread you can put a MII front end under it and not cut your frame in half to do so.

with a mustang two kit all you have to do is unbolt your straight axle and weld in a cross member and tops that come in the kit. I installed these things ever day for years and I can tell you that they are super easy to do if you can weld and have basic fab skills.

either way still a lot easier than a stub.

also you can dial in your ride height a little easier with a MII cross member.

and once you get the stub installed you have to rebuild it suspension wise and then you still have a steering box that may or may not be in good shape as opposed to a rack and pinion. also it is a lot harder to keep a stock steering column with a camaro stub too. it is possible but a pain in the ass. with the MII you can keep your stock column there and use your stock wheel and no one knows the wiser.

(disclaimer) before any one yells at me I am not saying that stubs are horrible and that people that own them suck or any ridiculous shit like that. I am just saying that as some one that worked in the industry for a while that there is (in my opinion) a superior product out there. no offense meant.

also I no longer work for fat mans nor do i have any close relations with any one there any more but they do put out a helluva good product with over 30 years of science behind it.

just my opinion.

 

It's funny, but I forgot about the steering box. Mine had a bad sector, but an old guy who owned the local junkyard liked me and gave me a new one. A new box. NOS. I had forgotten all about that. He was a cool dude.

You're right about rebuilding the subframe, it won't be for free either. I just think the payoff in terms of what you get is substantial.

As for the difficulty of installing, when I read that article in Classic Trucks, I was blown away at how EASY it was. All they used to center the unit was a piece of angle iron and another piece of all-thread. The cut point is pretty straightforward, and the only real fabbing is setting up the front clip mounts and radiator support. If I had known this when I had my truck I would have done it in a heartbeat!

Compare the cost with purchasing a MII kit. The cross member is more than what you'll probably spend for the car. With the car you even get a pair of bucket seats...maybe even a decent steering wheel.

I'll let it go now, I'm sorry if I keep going on and on about this, I just have this incredible cheap streak that runs through my veins, and I hate to see anyone spend more than they have to.

...and by the way, MERRY CHRISTMAS to each and every one of you.

 

That deal about rebuilding a stub is very true. By the time I got through with the one I put in my truck I had almost a thousand in parts to rebuild or replace all the worn out stuff. If I had it to do over again to save money and for an easier installation I'd go with the MII kit.
Later,
Dick

 

Just like mentioned in previous replies, you can easily use your current frame and drop in a big block. Big question at hand and what will determine where you want to get to with this build is your budget. Most things can be done for low cost but quality work...trucks are a blast to work on because they are so easy and parts are readily available. If you are looking for just a nice ride and cruiser, I would say save your $$$ on the motor build up...just find a descent 454, basic rebuild with a the fun bolt-on goodies and call it a day. here are some sites that will be more than useful to you, feel free to drop me a PM if you have questions as well.

47'current classic GM truck site.... http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/forumdisplay.php?f=13

LMC Truck Parts.... http://www.lmctruck.com/
Brothers Truck Parts.... http://www.brotherstrucks.com/
Truck and Car Shop.... http://www.truckandcarshop.com/

 

Thanks guys,
Went over and assessed the truck a little tonight.... has some cancer in the lower rear corners, the drivers side fender will need some work as well. It appears that someone replaced the original motor with a V8, i will try to get some numbers off of it Sat, also the factory standard trans has been traded for an auto.

I'm looking for a camaro front clip, this is the direction I think I will go... I have 2 friends that are certified welders so I will have them weld the frame for me..
(77-81 are the years that can be used right?)

Thanks for all the info on where to get parts

 

i have a 57 with 78 camaro clip in my shop now with front sheet metal off you are welcome to look. truck is in colleyville

 

I have a 55 chevy pickup with a big block and a 67 camaro subframe. I built it in high school, so it has been on the road for nearly 20 years, more or less. It sits low and rides really nice.



Would I do it the same if I had to do it again? No.
Do I regret how I built it? Definitely not.

The drawback to the 67-69 camaro and 68-74 nova clips is the steering box location. Don't get me wrong, it looks nicer behind the crossmember, but it gets in the way of exhaust routing and doesn't give you the flexibility of where the column comes through the firewall or floor. I used exhaust manifolds out of a 1977 1 ton and for some reason they had a depression that cleared the camaro box.

If I had it to do over, I would probably use an after market crossmember like a heidts superride, mainly because I can afford it now. It would give more time to focus on other things like bodywork, rather than trying to make the suspension look more presentable.

The nice thing about these trucks is there are alot more parts available for them than when I built mine. Even the parts for the camaro clip are easy to get now. But it all costs money.

Good luck
Dave

 

Camaro front clip, bumpers are available. Well except for the correct Fleetside rear if you decide to go that way. The repops are useable but the originals are better.

Fleetside beds are out there and getting more expensive, the 59 Deluxe with the side trim is the grail, but the trim is virtually impossible.

Just to clarify the 58 and 59 front ends are the same. The 58 and 59 Fleetside beds are the same except for the 59 Deluxe with the side trim. Oh yeah 55 secodn series through 59 cabs are the same as well.

Doesn't sound to comfy.

I haven't seen anyone selling the Fleetside beds. Of course Squirrel may be sitting on all of them. Mar-K lists nothing got Fleetside beds on their site.

Volare front ends are cool until you have to rebuild it and find parts.

LMAO, are you serious? Takes one bearing and a steering joint. I don't think it could be easier.

 

Finding parts for the volare wasn't that difficult but they are pricey.
Dropped spindles are about 3 times as high as they are for a Chevy.
Like I said in my previous post, if I had it to do over again I would use an aftermarket front end.
Later,
Dick

 

Thanks guys,
I was driving down the road today with my 2yr old and saw a guy sitting in front of his house with a TA up on stands, rear end removed and I thought no... surely he wouldn't want to get rid of that front end.. so I stopped and asked what he was up to...turns out he is using the car to rebuild a 79 in his garage..He will be using the front clip, because the one had was repaired in the front 6" of the frame in front of all mounts...He said I could have that one if I wanted it....I guess my question is what problems do you guys forsee with this frame or is this even one that will work?

Turns out I met a pretty good guy today and I probably wouldnt have even stopped if it werent for this website....I find with the rare exception that pretty much everyone that has a car up on jackstands in the front yard is a pretty good person.

He also had a 400 and a 455 laying around...

Later
Marc

 

will he sell the 455?

 

says hes going to rebuild it

Nice pic Richard Head!

 

LMAO???
don't be a dick, I was referencing the location of the steering box...

remember,
nobody cares about heathers Buick.


<3

 

I have done quite a bit of research too, and very good info above...

I would check out this thread for clipping a sub frame, best info I have seen in 4 years of searching/reviewing!!!!

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85075