I've been thinking of finally starting off on my own. I'm 30, no kids or wife or any related drama. I've had my eye on this shop for years. The problem is, I feel I've finally reached the point to where I might be able to take the plunge and buy it. But, given the current economy and its unforsee-able future, I'm not sure if its a good idea. This place is about 10,000 square foot combined, with about 6500 of it actual shop space. It has a 2 bedroom apartment above the 1700 sq foot showroom that I could live in as well. I don't need much, just a single dude remember. And its in a good size city, In a thriving shopping area,on a street just off the beaten path, surrounded by little businesses in strip malls. I'm not talking about starting off full bore, the place is too big for me at the moment, but its something I could see myself growing into. The biggest thing is I could live there so it wouldn't be too much of an added expense. I would have to spend a little to personalize it to my needs, like adding a paint booth and possibly adding three phase in places. Anyway my biggest question is this; do you think there is still going to be a market for building hotrods given the economy and the future of automobiles like what we work on? I feel that the guys with the big money will always be there. But, I haven't been introduced to any of those people yet. I know I have what it takes to hook those people in ,but I have to start somewhere. I've been doing the traveling body man thing for about 6 years and I'm tired of it. I'm tired of making guys 20,000 a car and me taking home gas and grocery money in return. That money spends in my pocket better in my opinion. Its also keeping me from building the cars I want to build. I have yet to finish one car for myself. Its just that I've been dreaming and attempting to prepare for this since elementary school.It has consumed my life to say the least.The problem is, now that I'm ready, I don't know if there is going to be a market for it. I have worked for local people who own collision shops and handfulls of others who have given me their opinions for years on why not to do it. I've just always felt they don't have what it takes to make it happen and they never really wanted to do it anyways. Long story short I'm sick of working on shitbox Hondas and I want to work on and create works of art that people will appreciate and take care of. Thoughts? Opinions? Thanks for listening if you made it this far lol.
the economy has dipped many times in my life and cars are still being built and sold. i sold 297 cars year before last,last year i sold 2,but i made money on other guys stuff and running to swap meets..it will pick up go for it...just have a good flow of cash....
I say go for it. If you keep doing the same old shit then you end up with the same old results. Sounds like your tired with your life now so for things to change then you have to make big changes. But then again what would a stranger like me know.
The economy always moves in cycles. What at one time is bad for one business, is good for another. I've been in business since '92, actually had several already. There is no ideal time to do it, there is only when YOU choose to do it. if its in your heart; do it. You must be flexible sometimes about the type of work you do. My specialty is aerospace compsites. Several years ago I ended up doing architechural work for about a year and a half. it was almost all we did for that time (other than some top fuel dragster wings) but it paid the bills, we learned a lot and developed skill sets that still pay off today. I believe every word in The Bible, and it says that right up until the moment of His return there will be commerce, people getting married and having kids, etc. What The Book is saying is; life goes on, don't wait for some event or another to direct you. Go do it if it is in your heart. My .02
Only thing I can suggest is to count the cost. A wise man takes into account all the aspects of the build or new venture beforehand. The fool, well he finds out how much it costs as he goes and finds he wasn't prepared. That 20k you speak of making isn't yours even when you make it. You have overhead to consider that includes everything. Make sure you can afford the insurance and be overly insured, especially with how sue happy people are these days. Most people are one paycheck away from bankruptcy. Before you start have enough to "float" for a while as you build your client base. It's late and I'm rambling... Brant
View it from just the real estate value. Any shop which offers apartment/living situation that is zoning acceptable is quite a good investment. If your a body guy consider that you will have to deal with the EPA requirements regarding paint,waste disposal,etc. Make sure you got some cushion cash for the rough times. Just think , now you will be hiring guys such as yourself-consider that also. You gotta make the final call.Being in business is not an easy task but I would do it all over again if I had access to the real estate that you are considering. Sounds like decent rental property. Oldmics
Wow, 30 minutes later and so much good advice! This place is awesome. I hear every last word you guys are saying, and I agree. I have considered the overhead expenses, you can never factor those out. I know all about the EPA BS, especially if you are a newcomer. I don't know exactly what would or could be grandfathered in. The place was a former Harley dealer ship built in 1952, and I think it said it was zoned C-2. I'm not too savvy on what that entails. If anything, I could outsource the paint work if it would help. I do have friends and possible investors. Keep it coming guys, I feel better already. Thank you!
I worked for two years 40 hours per week at my shop and 40 hours at a regular job to get started. The 40 at the shop didn't make me alot of money but I did get to build some cars to get my reputation to a point where I could make a living off of it. You say you made other people $20,000. I would say they employed you, paid all the overhead, lined up all the work, ordering everything, paid all the bills,(insurance is a bitch!) complied with all the regulations, ect..... I have three employees that get paid on time twice a month and I went from sleeping all night (as an employee) to worring half the night about all the stuff that didn't get done on budget or time. That being said, you can make more working for yourself. Do not expect to do it for the first three years or so. Business is quite a bit different than working for someone else. What is your business plan? Not trying to be negative, just realistic. Piss poor economy... I am booked for two years. Have booked another complete resto in December. Have not had a customer back out yet. Just because the news media says the future is bleak does not mean that guys with money won't spend it. I had a customer say to me the other day, "I'm 62 years old and have enough money to live out my life several times over so I ain't gonna let the summer of 09 go by without building my hot rod because other people don't have money. My arthritis is getting worse and I don't know if I have five summers behind the wheel of my hot rod or fifteen? Get my frickin car built!" I am sure you have concidered most of this stuff. It's late and I'm ramblin...PM me if you want to talk about the business side of it.
Be careful with the investors. People with money are usually pretty savy. I would not give up a piece of the business for easy money up front. Borrowing money means you will have to work 6 or 7 % more before you even start. I have customers that have made their fortune with 6 or 7% interest on their money. food for thought
I hear you guy. When I say he made 20,000 a car, it was his words not mine. It was a private guy, two times over. His own cars he acquired, factoring what he had invested as well. He's no dummy, he's been in it for a long time and is a wheeler -dealer. His garage, my time and tools. The problem is, this creates a cycle. He spends a fraction of this money, whether it be 2/3 or whatever....I'm only using it as an example. He uses that money to buy another needing the same work. He gradually makes more, I make the same. I'm not saying I would make that, more,or less. I'm just saying I need to make a better deal for myself. And as far as having investors, I agree on that too. I'm just thinking of a last ditch effort to get my foot in the door. I had a chance to let my own parents help me get started more than 10 years ago. I didn't want to let someone in on the deal that didn't know anything about the business or my expectations hinder my success. And involving family creates a whole new game of politics. My ideal business would not involve one single investor. I wouldn't want to let anyone down other than myself if things went sour. I also wouldn't want anyone having an unfair stake in my business. Trust me, I have though about all the ins and outs. I don't jump into anything half assed. I'm just trying to convince myself now is the time. I also know that once you think the bases covered, you don't know shit. Having said that. Keep it coming lol.
Owned a full blown custom shop with crew for 7 years. Now I do it by myself on the side for fun. There's a reason Jesse tatoo'd "pay up sucker" in his palm. BCR gives good advice. Plan twice, save trice, execute ones... www.Customikes.com
go for it i have a shop just watch out for guys with big dreams they normaily lose after the first few bills are sent out and of course you have the ones that retired from a gravey job now they think the world works the same way it did for them when in reality you work twice as hard for half as much just to be your own boss.2 cents the list goes on . good luck.
When you say this shop is surrounded by retail shops in a strip mall area is it far enough away that you can make alot of noise cutting and grinding with the door open?
do you want to be 65yrs old and say i wish i had done this or be saying i remember when i did that. we are on this earth once.i am packing in all the experences i can. in 30 yrs. i have had 2 shops go belly up. both failures were my fault. i now own a shop called outlaw steel with my son.we build ol school hotrods and custom bikes. 2 separate buildings. everything is done in house.things are slow, no things are dead right now, but it will pick up again.we live in outside a very small town, on top of a small mountian so our custumer base is very small, but we are getting known outside our area and we are here to stay.
My thoughts? NOT NOW. I have been in business almost 5 years and its still a struggle every day- even with my best clients. I was looking at a newer .;arger facility for my shop (as I desperatly need the room) and decided against it- NOW is not the time to be spending extra cash that you may not be able to recoup in a few months.... Remember: You would be living off making TOYS. No one needs a hot rod or classic- its definatley a want. Usually AFTER the mortgage and bills get paid. And if there is an unforseen cost for the client at home- YOU are the last one to get paid because its not a necessity. My clients are great people but you just cant account for things like broken water heaters, house damages (of which we have had a lot since the ice storms a few weeks ago), or the like. And you know those types of things need to be fixed first. My suggestion is to finish your own ride first- so people can see what you do (and that you can finish a job) and then see if people ask you to do work. Then take a hard look at what you do/did. Ask a friend or two- 'would yu PAY for the work I did?'. Hopefully the answer is yes. Id also ask the question- 'WHAT would yu pay to have (XYZ) done in your car? " You may be surprised that the people you think will be your first customers are the ones who will pay less than what it costs you to make /build the job. Survey the area as well- Would you be one of 100 shops in a 100 mile radius or the only one? Supply and demand need to be taken into account. Jumping in with both feet right now could be dangerous- but I wish you luck, but ID hold off. If its meant to be - the opportunity will be back. YOU may also want to check with the local town to see if you can even HAVE a shop there- just because there is a building DOESNT mean you can run a shop out of it anymore...
Go for it you will always regret it if you don't. Best advice any one can give you is keep the over head down as low as you can, don't buy anything you don't need and don't be so pompous that you will only do hot rods. We do almost everything some jobs suck some rock. Hell yesterday I went in and did a O2 sensor /check engine light job on a Toyota mini van and some other hot rod lose ends, made good money for a Saturday. Back to the hot rods Monday.
Stopped by a shop I worked for , the other day , to see how he was doing after I left and the economy took a crap, and hell he has more work now than when I left ..lol
DO IT!!! Real estate,is only going down from here,Timing is everything.I went on my own a little over a year ago and am thankfull every day. Im 42 and kids are grown and house is paid,Wife is a great partner and owns her own buisness.My time was right so i went for it,But i wish i was your age when i did. I worked for someone for 20 plus years and also worked at home rebuilding bike motors,and welding at home.I never wanted a bike shop but the work keeps comming,welding and hot rods fill in also.Im greatfull for the reputation i built up over the years,since i opend i only handed out a handful of buisness cards and keep pretty busy for a one man show.If i only worked on one thing it would be shakey,one day im bending and welding alluminum gas tanks for boats the next building a crank for a knucklehead. Deversifie,Find a niche and RUN WITH IT!!! Good luck....Gary
i work for a shop thats been in bussiness for 15 years with a steady 2 years booked ahead and this fall he have had everyone back out and we are down to two jobs and i havent gotten paid in 2 weeks. id say its a shitty time to open a shop on that aspect. but, ive also talked to two different shop owners who have told me flat out that they are steady busy and have more than enough work to keep them goin... moral of the story is that you gotta keep things reasonably priced, and dont expect it to be easy. if it was me, id do the hotrod thing on the side, work a 9-5 job, live within your means and do it on the side. its much less stressfull if you dont have to depend on it for your only income. myself, id do it underground too... cash only. fuck the epa, you just a hobbyist building cars for fun right???
Two things you haven't mentioned or at least I didn't see them - 1. How much money, your OWN cash do you have right now and how much will you have on hand after the building is mortgaged? 2. Have you made out a business plan for the next 1, 2, 3.... years, how you expect the business to grow and where you expect to be then? Most small businesses fail early-on because they're under capitalized and not well thought out. You not only have to be a competent artesian, but also an astute businessman, planning for the inevitable ups & downs of business cycles. I'm not trying to denigrate your abilities in any way, since I have no idea what skills you have, just tossing out some food for. If you don't have a good business background, you might want to consider a few night school courses and learn the basics. Some towns have a small businessmen's organization that provides counseling advice to new entrepreneurs, which you might be able to take advantage of. In any event, best of luck in all your endeavours. As someone said previously, you don't want to be 65 years old, look back and wished you'd tried........
Great advice all the above,I did it 15 yrs ago after the birth of our son, I woked at Kugel Komponents for 6 yrs prior to leaving. Jerry Kugel one shrewd business man, he told me you need 3 things in business. Good customers ( treat them right ) Your own building A product line , selling shop time is just trading $'s I have been fortunate to do all 3 as well as for me a 4th is get GOOD PEOPLE around you , treat your employees as you'd want to be treated. You are fortunate in having the real estate part sewn up, the space for retail sales , the word gets around quick. One advice , get yourself a car built , to show what you can do people need to see proof of your abilities. It sounds like your going in with your eyes open keep it that way & listen to advice it's usually free .I can set you up with our parts once your settled in & are a bona fide Hot Rod shop. Good luck , I'm glad I did it , sleepless nights , no money etc etc , I wouldn't trade it . Steve
When you work for someone everything is given to you. You get insurance,you get paid on friday,your work is given to you. When you have your business, you chase everything. You chase your money,your insurance,your jobs,phone calls all day long and it leaves very little time to put in actual labor. you'll almost need to hire someone to either do the labor or the chasing. The grass is always greener on the other side but it still has to be mowed. The greener it is,the more mowing you'll be doing. I was 28 years old when i started full time at my shop and i quit a good paying job as well. I did side work for years till i felt confident enough that i had enough work to go full time. I'm 34 now and still running my shop with 2 employees. Still isn't easy though. If you plan to hire. Don't hire dreamers that only expect 8-10 bucks an hour. You need someone with experience that can do their job when your not there. You'll spend more money redoing the cheaper employee's mistakes. Less experienced employees add to the agrivation of running your business. Your spending more money on payroll but your making more as well.Their hours will be accounted for.
I too have also pondered this many a times, also being a shy bit over 30... Great thread with a lot of helpful advise.
I am self-employed and have owned/started a few businesses over the last 10 years. My philosophy has been that it is better to start your business when the economy is in the toilet. That way if you have what it takes to make it go, you will do just fine when things pick up. But if you start during a boom period, you may find yourself saying " this is easy" only to get into a bind later when things slow down again and you know they always will. But really, that's just my opinion and what do I know.
In your post you said build "cars like we build" from what i have seen on here , everyone is against having a car built, or even admit that something was done elsewhere on thier car. with that said i think if you build low buck cars you will have a hard time making it.... I have several very good customers and have had for years, I stay at least a year behind . I build complete hot rods and race cars, not necessarily tradional , certainly not rat rods. but nice old hot rods. What I am saying is know your customers and your expertise. find a niche or comfort zone in what you do , and you will do ok, good luck. as for the property id love to have that available here , sounds great ...
Do it, with 6500 sq ft you could do alot. If it came down to it, you could probably store boats and rv's in there to pay the bills. Plus you'll be living there so that'll get rid of that cost.
LMAO, 6500 sf/ft is no where near enough space to be storing stuff. I have 6000 sq/ft and with 6 vehicles in the shop, equipment, parts, a few bikes, and some office space I could use another 2000 sq/ft easy.
figure only $50-75 a spot for storage. At least in Mo. Takes alot of cars to pay the mortgage. I do storage as well. It does help, but don't figure the storage into your business plan. Figure out all your costs;Mortgage,utilities,insurance,taxes,payroll,gas,food,etc. figure out what you should make a month, and see what's left over and put that away, because you will have slow times and things do break, especially when they are being used every day. Turning your hobby into a business takes the thrill out of your hobby.
Do not count on friends to help you make it. Unless you count them "borrowing" your mig welder, some WD40 and helping themselves to your shop fridg. Then they'll go home and order some parts from Scummit because they are saving 2 bucks. lol Trust me, they will do it so be ready for it and don't let it ruin a real friendship. Yeah, I've gotten jaded over the years. With that said, I'm glad I made the jump. Some great advice has already been given here. With this econ down turn I saw a nice 15.8% growth last year.
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