Art & Inspiration Sometimes they steal your work instead of your car

So I am relatively well known as a automotive/bike photographer ,and just found out the local Harley dealer stole one of my prints for there advertising

here is there poster:




Here is the original



I sent them a nice e-mail hoping to maybe get some future work out of them.

My E-mail

I recently received a copy of the Lone Star Rally “Kick-Start Weekend” poster. While I’m flattered that you chose to use one of our copyrighted images for the event, we normally charge for advertising services. Please contact me at your earliest convenience regarding this matter. I am also available if you are interested in purchasing photography for future promotions.
Thank you,
John


Here was there General managers reply, and remember I didnt send him a bill all I really wanted from this e-mail was a apolagy,and maybe some future work


Mr. Jackson,
I apologize if I varied from policies I was not made aware of. Prior to allowing the poster to be distributed, I sent the draft to Ron Limbock of the Lone Star Rally for his approval. He graciously gave his approval and was very appreciative that we were aggressively assisting in promoting the rally that was rescheduled as a “rebuild” of devastated Galveston as a result of Hurricane Ike and attendance was already questionable. We amiably agreed to stay as a vendor even though we firmly understood that our financial contributions, sponsorship, and expenses as a result would not be overcome by the revenue generated. However, Republic Harley-Davidson takes great pride in supporting the local communities, especially in such an instance as the wonderful residents of Galveston were damaged so severely financially and emotionally. There were no indications to me, verbally or in writing, that we were required to obtain your prior authorization by any documents or Mr. Limbock. I was and still am under the impression that Ron is the contact for the Lone Star Rally. If I did indeed overlook such information that may have been provided to me, once again, I sincerely apologize and will be more observant in the future.
On a personal note, I am somewhat offended by your verbiage in regard to financial restitution, especially considering the circumstances and our intentions to help those less fortunate.


........Now he has enough nerve to challenge my moral fiber due to the hurricane. We give alot of prints during the year for needy causes as well as volunteering my time as a photographer to several other causes at no charge. Also this poster was to sell and rent bikes for there profit at the event not to raise money for galveston.


Here is my reply:

I did not intend to offend, but it is what I do for a living. If I would have been contacted by your company who presented the work as its own, and what it would be used for it may have been a non-issue.

<CODE>So from this e-mail I should gather that Mr.Limbock is the creator of the ad that has your buisnesses name on it?</CODE></PRE>John Jackson
www.NotStockPhotography.com

 

Think I would have been ok with his reply............right up until the part where he took personal exception. Now I would say, go after him. How was anyone to know from the poster that this was in any way connected to hurricane relief? It appears that this was to benefit their organization and as such, they should be charged accordingly.
Just my $.02 worth.
Ken

 

I wouldn't give a damn what the reason. Stealing is stealing. If they cannot first ask permission, and second, piss on you and make it look like it is YOUR faul, I would take em to the ringer. Who does he think he his???

 

His response implies, in the first sentence, that ignorance of the law is a valid excuse. It is not. Don't ask me how I know. I would also like to say that "on a personal note" has no place in business correspondence, and is futher example of unprofessional conduct.

 

Yea if I would have been asked it would have been a non-issue. I just wanted a serious apolagy, and maybe some future consideration for any photography work they may need.

Hey its what I do for a living

 

What a great image, hope the spark was retarded, sort of a shame the genie is already out of the bottle, so to speak - A cruel welcome to the internet age, guys make a living off of selling low quality prints of pirated images on ebay, too - ALWAYS indicate in friendly correspondence about the matter your CC: to your attorney, so the recipient is aware your legal team is in the loop -


CC:
File Copies
Mr Joe Blow, esq.


Like that - Good luck with it, but however it results, consider it a lesson learned for the money lost ~ CW

 

As a fellow photog, I would forward a letter notifying all parties who are involved in the organization of this event that a copyright violation has occurred and be open to working something out or possibly get a letter from them stating that the image was "donated" and agree on a amount and then right it off as a charitable "donation" (may want to talk to your tax guy about that one though).

If they try to be tough guys about it, have you attorney send them a cease and desist letter with a invoice inclosed and try to get a temporary injunction so that you can take legal action against them down the road. Chances are though, they are small time and you'll get nothing, but at least you defended yourself and they may think twice about stealing some one elses work and claiming it as there own.

Good luck!

 

I read and reread your email and I don't get what offended him. You did not say that he had to pay you. You simply stated that you would like to discuss the matter with him. Had he approached you in a more amicable manner you might have waived any fee for the illegally copied print and provided him a source of a fine photographer for any of his companies needs. It amazes me that any business would turn down the opportunity to resolve an issue at the lowest level possible rather than in a court of law. Best wishes in whatever recourse you pursue and might one be able to get a copy of that picture in say 1024X768?

 

I had a tool design stolen. it is now sold by a big name hi perf company. It ticked me off because they didnt even bother to change any of the dimensions . I thougt about it for a long time. Not the same as your deal but I was unable to market it. It is not one of my skills. I only sold one and that was to a tool designer at Carlisle meet so i assume that is who copied and sold it. In fact he asked if i had patented it or copyrighted the design. i said no. I dont know how to deal with it. So far i did nothing. I accepted the notion that if they copied it that they also rrealized it was good design. Like your deal I am sure the people currently marketing it have no idea that the original 20 which are idential in every dimension and were made LONG before sit in a basket in my shop. The possibilty of that as coincidence is impossible. I finally just let it go. As a writer I have had material stolen verbatum without even so much as a foot note. That does really make me mad. I decided that those who did will never get a second chance. Maybe we both errored here maybe we are not the guys to do the folllowup. Maybe a lawyers letter would have brought a much better response. I dont know but I share your frustration. My guess is you have already rung their chimes. They wont do it again unless they are stunned.

 

Just another instance of the "It's not my problem" attitude that's eating this country apart. What you wrote was well thought out and inoffensive, especially considering your position. His reaction was unwarranted, and quite frankly, childish and irresponsible, and probably not a complete disclosure.

Why would a Harley dealership hold something that wasn't going to make them money? If Mama Harley found out, she'd have a fit. Sorry Mr. Dealership Man, your answer doesn't ring true. Of course, that's just my humble and uneducated opinion. Maybe STEALING copyrighted material is okay with the company that tried to copyright the SOUND of their exhaust pipes...

 

I wonder if he (the dealership) realized it was a Triumph in the pic? Shows their attention to detail (or lack thereof).

 

I also sent a e-mail to the show promoter letting him know I in no way held him responsible for the dealerships actions.

 

What's your situation have to do with building hotrods??????
Why does everyone feel that the Hamb is the place to post every problem in life???

 

It sounded like a typical GM letter of non-fault. No good GM would admit to wrong doing :].

Also, wouldn't the fault lay upon the company or graphic "artist" that created the poster for them. If it was a in house job then, it's their problem.

The internet is a great way to advertise but it's also a way to highjack your work.

I like your version (pict) better....

 

Next time let your attourney make first contact with the thief.

 

I don't know what is with Harley dealers lately, but they seem to think they shit gold and their actions are above reproach. I was supposed to look the other way when the local dealer was using the property I rent for a Veteran's Day event. They were doing it to sell bikes and merch. They acted offended when I asked them to not use the property...

 

ah the BIG HD DEALER down on the corner. big whoopy do. wrong is wrong, explaining it away ten different directions, what joke. Dont let up on it!

 

Sorry if I offended you also

 

This is good only if (a) you want to pay a lawyer to draft a letter and (b) you know what you want out of the deal. Too many people sue for 'revenge' and don't have a specific goal in mind, it makes for happy lawyers ($$$) and unhappy clients at the end. They spend $20K and collect $2K damages, but they 'win'. Sounds a lot like a net loss to me.

But cc:ing a lawyer on the letter is a good idea.

 

What a sexy picture. Sorry I dont have any suggestions only compliments.

 

I have a copyright lawyer who I have never had to use until now. I still dont want to sue even though my lawyer recommends it to recover my usual fee for advertising work..........I just wanted a sincere apolagy without a backhanded FU

 

Sue, collect, and donate the money to the Hurricane Relief Fund.

 

Thats my plan

 

If you really want to know how the Harley folks feel about "theft of imagery" just use the outline of the "bar and shield" logo or any other of their copyrighted images. They'll have a lawyer on your front porch in about 12 minutes. The theft of your work's product is as serious as the theft of their merchandise.

Stealin' is stealin' and why they done it is beside the point.

If the image is copyrighted it belongs to you. If they used it without your permision they stole it.

Any body that uses a Triumph as the focal point of a Harley advertisement is an ignoramous to start with.

I love the original poster by the way.

 

I've never heard of anyone needing permissions to use photographs or artwork????? Yea right!!!!

Ok now let's blame it on someone else!!

What a retard! Hope you get your money, oh and I like how he gives you a sob story about the hurricane and tries to focus the conversation on it instead of photograph!

 

Usually a nice certified letter from your lawyer is enough to get something done. I once had to buy a lawdude pal a sixpack of beer to recover a final paycheck that was being held wrongly from me. Of course they didnt know he was on a beer retainer!

 

i agree %100. that last little kick in the crotch was totaly uncalled for. it is a copyrighted image plain and simple and it was indeed being used with the intent for them to make a profit using said artwork as a means to reach that end.
had someone asked ahead of time and mentioned it was for a worthy cause none of us would be having this conversation.

because of his disregard for your property and his total contempt of the situation i would go after his ass with whatever means seem justifiable in this situation.

stealing is stealing!

 

hummmm.pass the popcorn please...
Dave

 

Here's what it has to do with building "hot rods": there is a Friday afternoon art thread on the HAMB, every one of those images are now on the world wide internet...available for the taking, for free...and every image posted in ANY magazine is also now on the internet, available for the taking, for free...without ANYONE knowing what's used...or what's paid for.

For a lot of us artists "building hot rods," this is how WE pay for our hobby...most of us don't have nine to five jobs, we don't collect a paycheck weekly...if a piece of our art is "stolen" (used without our permission), then we've lost part of our income...

I, too, have been part of this, I've actually sent invoices to parties involved in stealing my art...not only to the promotor, but to every person/company involved...I get all kinds of "sob" stories...!!!

My biggest: I went after AMT Corporation (model cars) for stealing a graphic from my '57 Chevy and then adding it to a decal sheet of a model SIMILAR to my actual car. I never got any compensation, but it cost them big time since they had their New York lawyers send letters to my attorney...and hopefully, the guy working there that stole it probably got fired.

R-

 

I feel like my eyes are going to bleed! Stealing is shitty, but stealing a 72 DPI/PPI image from the internet and blowing it up to all hell is just making the shot look like shit is just the pits. Worst design layout I've see in some time.

Then they offend you? FUCK THEM! Make them at least give you a tax credit for the work.