for you guys that were actually there around the drag race scene at the time... what years did start to see the straight axle cars and alterd wheel base cars become not the desired way to set up a ch***is? (considered outdated,and not the way to go, you might say)
Flip top funny cars killed off the altered wheel bases in '67 and in a few years when the g***ers switched to late model bodies, like Ohio George's Mustang, that finished the straight axle g***ers.
There were a few g***er leftovers in 67 and 68, maybe a few low-buck small teams ran them into the late 60s/early 70s from spares and used cars from other teams that upgraded, but they were generally looked at as the ******* kids from what I know.
better tires. then people learned a few syspension tricks for weight transfer and that the straight axels weighed more. the last reason was Air less air drag more speed. racing and styles evolve every body wanted somthing new/ around the south east straight axels were gone from the strips by 72 or so with the exception of a few that were satisfied to race but not to win. a first gen camero would smoke the same power train combo in a straight axel car.. all this happened wen we were cl*** racing before bracket **** came along. these are my observations and may or may not be correct to all on the board.. thank you... Bobby..
Our Ramber built in the late '60s as a C/Altered or D/Altered (depending on weight/engine) and it was very compe***ive in those cl***es well into the 1970's. Depending on who you talk to the car was driven until the mid-late 1970's. The wheel base was not moved on the car but it is a center-steer ch***is with a 21" engine set back (#1 spark plug to spindle centerline distance). -Bigchief
george had a straight axle maverick later after that.... do a search on the multi maverick...waaaaaay trick ride. gas or altered depending on the suspension mounting points....
So, Chief, why put the driver in the middle? And why not alter the WB? Sorry if these are dumb questions, this was before my time. Tom
i remember seeing straight axle setups thru the 70's...but looking back, i figure the were left overs still surviving and some pushed to the street...
ARS asked about the driver location, when the driver is in the middle his weight is more evenly distributed on the rear tires and that means a lot to get a car to go straight down the track. To really appreciate how complex the original question is (altered wheelbase & straight axles) you would have to go back and read/understand the NHRA rules and appreciate the differences is the cl***es: Modified Production to A/Factory Experimental to Gas to Altered. And as somebody else noted, the tire technology evolved quick about that same era. I would bet a book or two has been written on this subject, be a good read. I hope i didn't 'muddy' the waters.
I like sitting in the centre. Since you cant take a p***enger why build a place for them? My Jeep altered is centre sitting and it is straight axle too. Why? Because it is the right thing to do. At least to my way of thinking. The first non vintage g***er was from Diamond Racing engines and was a Hemi Challenger. It held the B/G record in its day. It wound up being owned by the late Bob Majon and his daughter Josie in the Ottawa Gatineau area. I had a chance to buy it but my partner wouldnt budge. Saved me from certain sin! I imagine it is still there somewhere. We lost a great deal when g***ers and altered went modern. Now gladly it seems to be coming back to the old style. Back in the days when men were men and women were glad of it g***ers and altereds were way cool. The pits were alive with T buckets. Austin bantams, Anglias and AustinA 40s etc etc. Then we got nuts and racing got less exciting. Straight axles forever I say. Someone should make and sell a T shirt. Don
Altered wheelbase cars were here and gone pretty quickly. I would say that compe***ively, they were around for about 18-24 months. After that, they trickled down stream to the slower cl***es. Understand that went they were created in late '64, the cars were in the mid 10s or so. By summer of '66 they were in the mid 8's and would be in the 7's with a year. About 12 months after the altered wheelbase cars debuted, Mercury unveiled 3 flip top Comets that simply changed that type of cl*** forever. many AWB cars were built in very early '66 but, by spring of '66, I doubt there was anyone building an AWB car to run blown nitro with. It would have been only for slower, or lower cl*** cars. The altered wheelbase cars were not stable and not compe***ive going that fast. Evolution and progress of that cl*** ( actually, better to say 'type of car' than 'cl***' ) at that time was very rapid. In the match race days, things changed every week. Never in the time of drag racing history did things evolve so fast. the high front ends, straight axles, etc went the same way. as the cars got faster, having the front end up made them less stable and block more wind. Some of the slower, lower cl*** cars kept these features for a time but, followed the quicker cars trands later. The AWB era was VERY short indeed but, it was a very exciting time to see so much changing so fast. I was not old enough to experience it but, have studied it since the mid 70s when I was a teen. I always like the way they looked and alwasy wanted one of my own. I am now building what close to what i would have built if I was around in 1965. This AWB Tempest. It'll be on display in April here in Phoenix. Steve <DIR>Hosting 11th annual Pontiac Heaven, show, swap, drags, party and all around good time. Saturday April 4, 2009 at Speedworld near Phoenix, Az Also hosting- 7th annual Nostalgic Show and Go! and swap coming Sunday April 5, 2009 to Speedworld. Phoenix, Az </DIR>
I'm speculating that the reasons are just like what was noted in other posts. L-R weight bias was more equal with the driver in the middle meaning that there was less ch***is tuning to get the car to leave straight and by the time this car was being built (I was still in diapers at the time this car was being built) altered wheelbase cars were most likely on their way out because funny cars were coming on strong by then. Another thing to point out is that the Rambler was a pretty short car, about the same as a Mustang with a 108" wheelbase but with even less sheetmetal ahead of or behind the wheel housings. Without stretching the **** out of it and actually building it into a funny car you'd be hard pressed to alter the wheelbase and have a reasonably stable car. This particular car was known to launching two ways. Launch type 1 - is extremely hard and straight for the type/cl*** of car/tire size and tire technology of the day. The original builder gave us fair warning on tire size because of the gains in tire technology today. Running modern tires will no doubt put the car way up in the air. Back in the day it would pull the wheels everytime and needed/used the wheelie bars as a tuning/traction aid. Launch type 2 - is a fast hard turn to the left or right (usually due to a wet tire or pressure diffentials from one side to the other). The first builder/owner is famous for mowing down the starting line lights at Spencer Speedway during some sort of mid season/end of season race shutting the place down for quite some time. It was such a bid deal that when the car got switched over to its green/silver flake livery they painted a mural of the car in Castle DragonFire trim at the starting line in front of the tower at Spencer mowing down the tree. The spool had been pulled out of the '57 Olds rear and replaced with a Moroso Brute-Strength diff to try and minimize/soften up any wild rides due to wet tires. My buddy and I got the car a long time ago ('89) and we're still in the restoration process. There's a fresh bug up our *** to get it ready so maaaayyybee it'll see track time later this year. We'll see.
A bit of an afterthought, the cl***es that gave rise to the altered wheel base and straight axles are still there, and those things are still being done although the form is different. The ?/FX cl***es and altered cl***es (which combined gas and altereds back in the late 80's) are run in 'Comp Eliminator'. The biggest significant difference is the tire size, back in the day the tire was smaller and that is what gave rise to the high front end stance (thanks to the 'High and Mighty' the car which created a crankshaft height rule which still exists in todays' rulebooks). With larger tires and getting the car to 'hook up' meant that some of the more treacherous aspects of the suspension geometery could made more driver friendly. Keep in mind, the guys building the cars back then were not stupid, they fully well understood what they were doing and their primary objective was to get the thing to hook up and launch. To get traction the crankbolt was much higher than the pinion gear which literally drove the rear tire into the ground to create as much traction as possible. Todys' car with much larger and softer tires have the crankbolt lower than the pinion and rely on suspension geometery to 'plant' the tire. And that is why you don't see the high nose at***ude, not necessarily the straight axle - they could still be there for all pratical purposes, you just wouldn't see them. And altered wheelbases are common, only the stock/super stock cl***es have stock wheelbases.
I had a perfectly good ALUMINUM FRONT END 1963 PLYMOUTH 426 RAMCHARGER SUPER STOCKER...that i bought new in 1963...and like all of the other idiots, and there where literally 100's of us....In 1966 I started cutting up this (what came to be) piece of history (as there were only 3 1963 2-Door hardtop Belvederes produced in 1963 with the Stage III Aluminum Front End)... I started by Altering the Rear wheels 15" forward, setting the motor back 26" and installing a CAE Tube front axle... NOW...WHAT WAS REALLY STUPID...I shoulda just bought a used 6 cylinder 2-Door Sedan Mopar and cut it up...AND PUT THE ROLLING CH***IS OF THE 1963, NUMBERS MATCHING, ALUMINUM FRONT END FACTORY PRODUCED SUPER STOCKER INTO THE GARAGE.... I sold the aluminum front end to Arlen Vanke and then bought 1965 Plymouth FIBERGL*** Front Fenders, Bumper, Hood, Doors and Decklid to turn the 63 into a 65. But we all did it...including the straight axle....and I believe that all this ended after the summer of 1968.
No need to beat yourself up over that car Mike. Like you said yourself, EVERYBODY was doing it. I'm only 30 yrs old, but summer of 68 sounds right to me for roughly the end of solid-axle AWB rides. By that point, the original 'gl*** bodied Logghe style cars were becoming secondhand and soon thereafter all the blown/injected AWB "real cars" were relegated to carburated "bracket bombers". I'm working on an AWB that is built from a 318 4door sedan throw-away car, but it's only because it's all I can afford!
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