Painting lifter valleys, what did ya use?

I have been grinding all of the flash off a 283 I am building and was wanting to throw some paint in the intake valley. I used to use the red oxide rustoleum brush on stuff. But, with all of the tree hugger, feel good , epa crap going on, I am almost scared to paint anything that will be in contact with hot oil.

I've had the block vatted and I have removed al of the flash and polished the intake area. I will haul it back down the machine shop and run it through the washer once more before I paint it so it will be clean.

So.....anyone have any recommendations for a good valley paint? Please only respond if you have actually tried this.

 

Glyptal. Works GRRRRREAT. To quote Tony the Tiger.

 

This paint is for electric motors right? Where do you buy it?

 

Zink Chromeate primer. Lots of diesels are coated on the inside with it. I have a '49 john deer tractor that I had to split open a while back to work on and it was painted inside with it too. Looked brand new inside.

 

I believe Eastwood carries it here:

http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?itemID=2298&itemType=PRODUCT

 

I wanted to paint my lifter valley in the worst way, but talked my self out of it
with visions of paint chips in the oil galleys.





Ago

 

If ya paint it in the "worst way", it probably will flake off... If you paint it the "right way", it'll last. Glyptal was always "the hot setup" to promote drainage,and I'll bet you can find it a lot cheaper than Eastwood's prices. vic

 

Glyptal is the way to go. We used it in a nitro Harley all the way on down to hot street Harleys without an issue. Yes it is for electric motors and yes it is expensive. On the AMF's we found that the 1980-1983 era had some real porosity issues with the cases. Glyptal sealed them quite well, oil drainage improved tremendously, This is important when big stroker flywheels are being drug through trapped oil in what is supposed to be Drysump system.Once coated with the glyptal the reduction in oil to surface tension/friction promoted fast and improved drainage to the pump/oil tank/and motor.

The key is to clean your base metal, attention to details here pays off in the end. I was thinking about deflashing and rough polishing the lifter valley on my SBC then giving it a coat of glyptal to promote drain back to the pan.

 

I painted inside my Caddy block with red oxide Rustoleum back in 65 and it hasn't peeled or flaked to this date.

 

glyptal is the tit . that said after block clean up your done, block paint went out with innertubes and fuzzy dice. the hog builder made a good point about areas were oil pockets but a sbc lifter vally is not that . put a scope down the intake breather tube and look around it will set ya back with many questions to ponder .block paint aint one of them .c

 

hey stagger,

what do you mean by that?

do you mean dirt and other things in the valley?

 

New mill for the Fly? Or the kids coupe?

 

I just got done reubilding my motor. Used rustoleum, put it in the valley, bottom of intake, behind timing gears and behind the timing cover, also did the inside of the heads with it. Heres some pictures.

 

is there a reason im missing as to why youd paint the INSIDE of an engine?

 

You paint the inside so that the oil flows threw better and it keeps the sludge down is what ive been told, correct me if im wrong.

 

I think this may be an idea without real merit. A well maintain engine does not build up sludge!! Tell me again why this matters?

 

Im with him, theres got to be some better reason???

 

I used to use Glyptal on lifter valleys. You need to have the block spotlessly clean and use denatured alcohol or the like to remove everything...honing oil, grease, fingerprints, etc. After we painted them, we used heat lamps to cure the paint for 24 hours or more...it seemed as if it hardened the coating beyond what conventional air-drying would do.

All that being said, I haven't bothered to do it in quite some time. I will smooth & completely polish a lifter valley & crankcase walls for my own stuff, but not others, unless it's requested. I have never had a problem with my own use of Glyptal, but I have seen other people's engines with it flaked off and in the oil pump pickup screen...and embedded in the bearings. In one case it was partially clogging the lifter galleys and pushrods. Poor technique? Probably, but I'm sure that every one of those guys would have said that they "did everything right". Most of the very serious builders that I know will not do it...they consider it as a no gain/possible problem kind of deal.

One thing to consider, also, is that oil serves as a block coolant. Much of this is done at the bearing surface, true, but there were some interesting tests done some years ago that tested oil temps with & without various parts being coated, with white paint, black paint, Glyptal, & anodizing. The bottom line was, for the most part, that internal coatings of that type did more harm than good in terms of heat retention. Note: I'm not referring to the modern coatings done on valves, seats, pistons, cylinder head ports, etc.

IMO you're better off spending the effort on improving drainback and oil control.

 

Why not just get a bigger oil pan and make sure your oil is plentiful and going everywhere. Who cares how fast it goes back down if you have plenty available. I still jes don't see why to do it! Come you fellas that are spending real time doing this, why?

 

the other thing is, like a Griswold Cast iron frypan, heat and oil seasons and fills the pores in the metal. The block essentially developes a non stick coating in the valley and such. the paint is kinda a moot point.

 

Ummm...actually, if you read my post, I don't.

So far as oil control & drainback go, that's a whole 'nother topic for a different thread....

 

I suppose that your engine block and heads were formed by a sand cast method. Did you also know the cast may be porous and contains minute particles of sand even after thorough cleanings. Apply GE Glyptal paint and seal the cast surface and these sand particles. Get better drain back of oils to the pan.

 

Sorry 'bout that. I did read you post and noticed your comment about not doing this anymore. Really meant to direct to anyone still doing it

 

That would be trure on really old stuff, would it not? Not newer castings

 

I think it is strictly academic. I guess I could see it if you used a dry sump and you where splinting hairs.

 

Glyptal is hard to find. I used Sprayon S00601, red insulating varnish. Its available from Grainger under their part # 1D276. There are also green and clear versions. The green is listed as epoxy, not sure if it is any different from the red or clear.

 

This is first hand from a noteworthy Enginge builder who shall remain nameless.
FIRST HAND. as in he told my exactly WHY the bad asses would use Glyptal.

Have You ever run through an older G.M.P.P. catalog?

did You ever notice they actually sold head "as cast" -meaning they didn't have so much as holes drilled for valve placement. no spots for rocker studs, nothing. not even a rear good "hint" at what the valve pocket was going to look like.

there fellas would buy these for Pro Stock and get real creative with valve placement, valve angle and the like. keep in mind these didn't run water through them. hence, it wasn't uncommon to use Block cement or a similar substance to fill in a pesky water jacket You ran a carbide bit into...deep.

That stuff sticks out like a sore thumb (it's white) in the event You take a look at it. it can also get "crumbly" after a while- enough heat cycles will do that.

solution! paint the insides so that it looks like massaged steel. especially if You are doing things like effectively rebuilding the motor between passes.

That last thing You want is for someone to walk by and snap a polaroid of Your sneaky port work and the like...

as far as drainback is concerned, any metal polisher will tell You (especially the knife guys) that part of the process of polishing is to close the pores over-think of the heat created while grinding, them apply it to a smaler level. You actually end up "moving" the metal around quite a bit. in theory, closing, or at least greatly diminishing the size of the pores.

in closing, there is also this train of thought.

I agree with the cast Iron skillet theory -to a point.
Anything Cast is going to continually -througout it's lifespan-expell Casting sand. especially if You heat it, then cool it, over and over, forever.

It is my understanding that the major points of block flash removal is to get rid of the real "problem areas"- spots that look real slaggy, (blowouts)
high ridges (most prone to expelling) and level out areas where oil will "pool" due to natural low spots caused by the casting process- like the ones in a lifter valley- some guys basically "dig ditches" between them to avoid pooling).

and if You have done all this ninja trickery, might as well hide that too, right?

 

Strange thing but my caddy block is not shedding any of the Rustoleum paint in over 53 years, maybe because I went out with inner tubes and fuzzy dice !!!

 

Like I said I was contemplating doing this to my motor after a rough polish but still haven't done it due to how the motor will be used.

On the Harleys we did it because they were/are a dry sump sytsems, pourous aluminum and air cooled. Keeping hot oil in the motor was not as beneficial as getting it moving out (less windage) and through the lines to the tank where it had a chance to cool before it went back through the motor.

SBC is cast iron, water cooled and wet sump...different animal. My SBC will be an Alcohol motor (Cooler) so I concentrated more on de-flashing the valley area to promote better flow back to the pan. I didn't re-design it. I just took GM's block and made it closer to what they meant when they drew it up on paper instead of what came out of the foundry.

As far as Glyptal preventing sludge/sludge buildup.....I've taken apart some of those old Harleys for a freshen up and still found the sludge......from what I would call "Owner Abuse". No oil changes, poor oil quality, lack of maintainece. The only thing Glyptal did at that point was make cleaning it out easier. I'll never figure why some guys would build these big $$ barely streetable stroker motors and abuse them like this but that is another topic for the other board on another day.

In the end I doubt I'll glyptal the block because of the benefits gained vs $$ vs failure. Glyptal is expensive and getting what I would consider a "well seasoned" block 100% clean is not realistic enough when you look at the overall gains. You could clean the Harley cases till you were blue in the face, bead blast 'em and let them sit for a couple days and the oil would seep out of the aluminum!!!!

Polishing on the other hand is just my labor and I'll be off work for awhile with hip replacements at the ripe old age of 42 so if it is at bench height I may be able to toss it around and polish, polish, polish, deflash.

Like said above, if you're going dry sump & splitting hairs then I'd go for it. For a street motor....overkill/bragging rights.

 

Salient thoughts there Lux.