trying to identify a vintage Hilborn fuel pump

the only #s i can find on it are:
BL 23D 904

thanks for any help!

 

Hey Brian, wecome to the HAMB !!!

If you haven't posted an intro yet, may I ever so humbly suggest that you do that? These guys (and gals) like to know who they are playing with, or they can start to play kinda rough, sometimes....
PS I got the starter thing and the radiator hose thing handled, thanks anyway, buddy !!!

 

BL are the old sliding blade type pump. I ran one on my banger and it worked well for me. Apparently it had first come with a Y block injector set up. I first sent it to Hilborn for testing.

 

found out this is a BL235. not sure what it's GPM is, but i'm hoping hilborn calls me back sometime today.

here is a pic of one of the TBs sitting on a head. they have some serious lean to them. this set up is from around 1969 and was installed on a long block and never run.

 

ahhhh the injected vw motor! I know it well. ran one in a midget for a few years.

I would suggest you call mike seymour at autocraft race engines in marlboro ma. he built my motors and has been building and racing them for years. He'll give you a basic starting point on setting it up. BTW, the hardest thing to get right on those is the throttle linkage.

you're not planning to run that on the street are you?? My midget motor idled (if you could call it that) at about 2k rpm. this was a 2.5l alch. injected autcraft race motor making about 275hp

 

i am... but i plan on doing it with 2 extra barrel valves. i was looking at the linkage last night. before i do anything, i have to clean it all. 40 years of sitting on an engine in a shop gets things grimy! do you have any pictures of the set up on your racer? i'm looking for some pics for reference use. any pics of the lines at the fuel tank and any of the linkage set up would be a fantastic help!

 

2 extra barrel valves?? I only ran a single barrel valve with two pop off valves. the barrel valve is ground for your fuel curve up to about 1/4 throttle I don't see what good additional barrel valves would do??

I don't have any pics of the motor handy. I had some but it's been about 8 years and three moves since I've looked through them.


what are the specs on the motor as it sits?? bore/stroke cubes? valves/porting of heads, diameter of injector stacks, cam etc. ignition. do you have the gas nozzles or alcohol??


here's the number for autocraft engines. if you need anything he usually has shelves full of older parts like you are running and he can help set you up. Tell him Kevin Weeks gave you his number.
Mike seymour
508.485.2247

 

Brian, that looks suspiciously like the setup that came of Bill Shear's garage find motor in Escondido... did you get that from either him, or Shawn Proffitt?

 

what I did for the return lines (there were three on my motor) was to make a return manifold that the three lines hooked to so I only had one return line running all the way back to the tank.

you will definately need a blowoff gage to check the settings on the bypass valves. I used my leakdown gauge that I setup for that purpose.

 

dave, that is bill's set up.

revkev... this will be a very slow build as i'm going to do everything i can to get it right. it came with alky nozzles so i will have to switch to gas nozzles.

the engine is a 2332 w/ engle w120 cam, heads flow about 160 per barrel at 25" water, CR is at 9.7:1. the TBs are 1 13/16 openings. i'm gonna go with a 5as nozzle it looks like.

 

ok, so it's a small 140cube motor.

I don't know anything about the flow of stock ported heads. but i'm guessing the injector stacks are sized about right for them. I started with a 132 cube motor (94X78) with street eliminator heads on it, then I replaced those with unported autocraft pro series race heads with 2 1/4" injectors. we ran this motor configuration at 11.7:1 compression @ 7200 rpm for 22 races a year without a DNF. it was a very strong motor.

after that I moved up to the 2.5l motor that was a 96.5mmX86mm. this motor was ported with about 13:1 compression. It was an extremely stout motor but unfortunately it was also unreliable. i don't remember what we used for stacks on that motor.

on both motors we used waterman nozzles instead of the hilborn type, autocraft midget cams and scat forged cranks

 

what is the advantage of the waterman nozzles? also, kinsler makes some barrel valve spools for part throttle use that are suppose to fit the hilborn BV. i'm awaiting a reply from them too.

 

to be honest, I don't think there was too much difference between the nozzles. the hilborns use a screen to atomize the fuel where a waterman nozzle uses a curved notch that the fuel sprays against. IMO the hilborn unit probably works better, but has more of a chance to become clogged.


the barrel valve is the hardest part. it may take you a while to get a workable fuel curve. what are you running for ignition?? I ran an MSD electronic distributor with the adjustable advance curve very effectively.

 

the ignition is undecided at this point...

 

went and looked at the nozzles last night. i think the 18as will be just a touch too big for my use. i've really got to find a picture of how this linkage is set up. it isn't the bell pivot style, it is a single rod that connects with eyelets then to double pivot linkage on the TBs. revkev6, what style linkage did you use?

 

I mostly use 6 and 7 nozzles for gas motors. 18s is for fuel I believe and will be way rich on gas

 

yeah, that's what it came with. gonna have to switch nozzles, barrel valve spool and pressure relief springs...

 

Something like this?

 

yes, that style! the only difference is my TBs lean out instead of sitting upright.

 

Those are after market heads, but its the same setup for VW heads. Kinsler should have everything you need.

 

the linkage I had was the same as what rootie posted. the pain in the neck with that linkage is setting the throttle stops the same on all 4 (I used shim stock but forget the thickness) and having all of the pivot arms "timed" identical between the two sides. if they aren't timed the same one side will open faster than the other and you will get vibration in the motor.

that's exactly what my 132 cube motor looked like, and to be honest it looks exactly like mike seymours shop. Where is that pic from rootie??

 

yes, i knw they do... right now i really need a picture of how the linkage is set up! my instructions that came with my stuff show the later bell crank linkage.


revkev6, if you can find any pics that would be great! once i have it all connected correctly, i'll get them synch'd. i'm the guy that does everyones dual carb linkage in the area...

 

rootie... would you email me more pictures of that engine? thank you!

 

that's a complete aftermarket motor

autocraft pro series from case to injectors

the 132 cube motor I ran a MSD distributor while the 153 cube motor had a magnesium case with the same mallory magneto.

it's bringing back the smell of burning methanol to my eye

 

i've got a 144 cube engine for all this to go on!. it's gonna be some fun once i get the fuel lines run!

 

Dunno, just a pic I had saved at some point. But you're right about dialing it all in, it can be a PITA. Been a long time since I messed with that stuff, and really don't miss it.

 

I know for a fact I don't have any pics of the linkage. only thing I ever took pictures of was the plumbing. what a nightmare that was. dry sump with injection on a vw motor always seemed to be just a mess of plumbing. pretty much as pictured in rootie's photo, only thing that's not real clear in that pic is the return stop.

seriously though, you should call mike seymour. he's a hell of a nice guy and can get you any pictures info and linkage parts you need.

 

Naww....

 

this is what your hilborn injectors look like off your motor correct?? I ran a set just like these with the street eliminator heads. from the picture you posted, the linkage is mostly there on the one side. you need the cross shaft to link the two sides together, the throttle stops for each side (may already be on there) and mount your barrel valve to one side and connect it to the linkage as well.

 

found a decent shot, showing how the linkage should be run. you can even see the stops.