Carson Top Material?

Looks like I'll be doing a carson top on a 36 plymouth in the next few months, I'd like to do it in a traditional material. I know that the original material was called "Harts top material", but I have never seen or felt any in person. Does anyone know where to find some, or and equivilent material? From what I have seen in pictures it is more of a canvas type top material rather than a vinyl.
thanks,
Chris

 

Hartz's premier material. Stayfast is a tightly woven cloth canvas. The yarn is solution dyed BEFORE it is woven so the color is uniform throughout. If you have a domestic made or converted vehicle that came with a cloth top then most likely it was originally stayfast cloth. Stayfast will hold up much better in extreme hot or cold climates. It does have a richer look. It is significantly more expensive to have a top made in stayfast cloth. Color choices are more limited in Stayfast and there is no white available. The interior side of Stayfast is black cloth standard. Selected colors can be had with a tan interior cloth at an extra cost.

I used Hartz Stayfast canvas on my Lincoln. I'll find out where my guy got it.

 

Commonly known as Hartz Cloth.

 

I can't really tell from the website, do they have a stark white top cloth?

 

Where does everyone get the stark white top cloth like what was used by carson or gaylord back in the 40's and 50's.....

 

Try Lebaron-Bonney.

They sell it in kits or a completed top for popular older cars.
(A's, Deuces, 34's etc.)

It's sold by the yard as well.

Give them a call and request the small catalog with top material samples in it.
You may have to pay a very modest amount for it, but it's a lot better than blindly picking something out of a print catalog.

Good stuff, my L-B top is about 12 years old and still hanging in there.

 

This company has some "whites", not snow white though. Some of it is not genuine Haartz, but a synthetic. Look in "Hot Rod" colors-it is Haartz Stayfast.

http://www.keeautotop.com/index.html

 

Sails are made out of Dacron.
Dacron because of its minimal stretching.
A typical Dacron sail - Working Jib, 150% Genoa and Main are - for a 23' boat with 105 sq ft jib and 100 sq ft main made of 5.0 oz cloth.
The 176 sq ft 150% Genoa are made of 3.8 oz cloth.
Weight derived from a sailmakers yard which is 28" x36".

A Spinnaker is made from nylon, looks like parachute cloth and also looks like the 'rip-stop' nylon used in down jackets when the outer covering is nylon.
The spinnaker on my boat is 436 sq ft and if I remember right it was 1.5 oz cloth.

Bigger boats get heavier cloth an smaller boats lighter.

As a small example, Dacron is also used to make YachtBraid which is the inner/outer rope bit with woven outer cover.
Dacron lines are used for halyards - sail raiser upper rope - and sheets (which control trim) due to lack of stretchiness.

Nylon line is usually a three braid twist and used for dock lines and anchor lines due to it will stretch 17% when wet and maybe half that when dry.
That helps to keep cleats from getting yanked out of the deck as well as helps keep the anchor from being yanked out.

And then there's wire rope as well as Kevlar and Mylar for sails, but that's another story for another time.

More than you wanted to know, but there ya go.

Sail material wouldn't make good top material since it's woven so tight that it's more like thin sheet metal than it is cloth.

Had a sailboat for about 14 years and as you can see, some of the information stuck....

 

As stated earlier, Haartzcloth will tend to rot. However, there is an alternative synthetic material available which is nearly impossible to differentiate from Haartz cloth. As it is a synthetic, it will last for a REALLY long time without the rotting problems. I'm sorry I don't know the name of the product, but a good upholstery shop that does convertible tops will know for certain. I'd look into this for a quality Carson-like top. Just my 2 cents worth...

 

Just find a shop that makes boat covers. I used some for a tonneau cover, looks vintage but is synthetic.

 

I've removed the material off of two original Carson tops from the early fifties, and both were closer to vinyl than cloth. It was thick, almost like it was fabric-backed. But definitely of a vinyl-like consistancy.

 

Just checked my sample books and find about any color but white in cloth. Several in vinyl.

 

Within the last year there was an article in the Rodders Journal about the Carson shop & tops. They said that the exact material is no longer made.

Sorry I don't know the issue it was in, but somebody here does...

 

Do the still make the original wood and chicken wire for the frame or do you have to use synthetic?

 

It was call Hot Rod white but is no longer in production, the closest canvas I have found is Oyster white Haartz Stayfast. Cost is approx. $50 per yard. Sunbrella makes a single layer boat canvas in oyster that the exact color and is great for binding and making hidem...good luck with your top...Steve Pierce

 

Thanks for all the help, If anyone knows the alternative synthetic material (mentioned above), and what its name brand is, that would be really helpful fo I can do some comparisons.

When you say that the Haartzcloth tends to rot, what exactly does that mean? Is it because of the elements rain and sun? Or is it something else?

 

Bill Hirsch should have the hartz. Thats where i got the GM type convert material for my 32 convt top.

Dunno on width of materials though.

www.hirschauto.com

 

There are white tops on many of todays cars.

I wonder if it would help to research the GM, Ford, ChryCo sites for information pertaining to convertible tops?

Sometimes you can find a comment that says something like; "Our tops are made of Mahvelous Material, the best there is."

Then all you have to do is chase down "Mahvelous Material."

 

I have a Haartz stayfast top on my non Hamb friendly 91 Camaro, its been on there for four years and still looks good.