Spark? problem; or, i swear i am going to kill my truck with me in it.

One of the best pieces of advice here is change the spark plugs - don't just clean them unless you can media blast the alchohol glaze off. Most modern fuel contains alchohol - it can coat the plug. Once coated the plug will not come back unless abrasive cleaned. I have seen this a number of times on engines that ran and then a few weeks later (or over night!) will not start. I have seen alchohol coated plugs that would show a good spark outside the engine, but not fire under load.
Also .020 seems like too much gap for the points, may be right though generally isn't about .018 closer?

 

The weak intermittent yellowish spark makes me think it's the points. When a similar problem happened to me where I couldn't get an old car to start, it turned out to be the points were burned up. When I took the points out and looked at the contact faces closely, one side had a big volcano looking lump in the middle and the other had a matching pit. I filed them and got it running again kind of so so, but it ran a whole lot better when I got home and replaced the points.

I think modern points have a thin layer of Rhodium on the surface of the point contacts. Once that Rhodium burns off, they're never the same again and they keep burning up even if you file them.

 

His yellowish spark he says is from the coil wire.he hasn't tryed the spark plug wires yet.

 

I have been bit by this one: check the ground on the distributer plate that holds the points, not sure about this particular dist. plate in question, but many move when the vacuum advance pulls on them, and there is sometimes a small flexible wire or some other provision for grounding that provides a good ground for this moveable plate, if the points can't ground well enough, weak spark.

And in the memorable words of Mr. Z, my old automotive electricity instructor, "Inside every electrical wire is a certain amount of smoke, whatever you do, don't let it out as you can never get it back in."

 

Okay. stupid question. Have You pulled the plugs to make sure They're not fuel fouled?

if it fired once, then You cranked and cranked on it, all the while giving the 'ol gas pedal a work out, I bet they are SOAKED.

 

Should jump over a half inch, blue as blazes. Did you do a compression test, I missed that if you said so.

 

I would start at the beginning at the battery to be sure you have at least 13-volt in the battery. Now check battery voltage at the starter and it should match battery voltage. If it is not the same, there is a defect between the battery and the starter. Bad cables or cable connections, poor ground etc. Now crank over the engine and the battery voltage at the starter should be within a half a volt of what it was before. In a lot of cases the battery voltage at the coil is good until the engine cranks over. Then all of the current from the battery goes to crank over the engine and there is nothing left for the ignition. Sometimes you will experience this as lots of cranking but no starting UNTIL you let up on the starter, then it starts. That is because the starter is no longer sucking all of the juice and there is enough to make the ignition hot enough to start. I also use nothing but Internal resisted ignition coils (Napa #IC64) and take the external ballast resistors and throw them as far as you can then go and kick them for good measure.

You should have a bright blue spark at the ignition coil wire when the engine is cranking. Just hold the coil wire at the dist end against the cylinder head about a quarter inch away from the block. (grab the boot so you do not get the poop shocked out of you) With the engine cranking and the switch on you should have a bright blue spark. If not you need to go back and find out how come. Follow your connections back until you find out where the voltage drop is.

Also check your starter amperage draw. It should not be more than about 200 amps when cranking the engine. When the bushings get worn... the armature drags on the field coils (magnets) inside of the starter housing which makes the starter use way more current than it should to crank over the engine. When that happens there is nothing left for the starter, The worst one I ever saw was on a straight eight Oldsmobile that would not start when it was hot. That starter was drawing over 400 amps when it was trying to crank the engine and doing a pretty poor job of it.
Hope this helps....Randy

 

Guess I thought since you were posting you weren't working. It's hard to help when we can't see the results. You are getting a lot of good advice.

 

ok guys
come'on................
im sure whoever owned it prior to you couldnt start it either, and they started tweaking on it, and fucked something up. expect that. thats probobly why they sold it!!!
so where i would start is:

#1---pull the dizzy
#2---reset the dizzy with the #1 cyl at top dead center
#3---unclip the cap w/wires attached and throw it in the trash can
(BEGIN WITH A CLEAN SLATE)
#4---find a diagram online that shows the plug wire diagram
#5---buy new wires,cap and plugs and install

***GOLDEN RULE****
NEVER TRUST the previous owners mechanical ability, or the mechanical ability of their friends or there drug dealers!!!!!
ASK ANY MECHANIC; AND THEY WILL TELL YOU 9/10ths OF WHAT THEY DO IS FIXING OTHER PEOPLES F***-UP's

 

Did you even read the part about the truck running when delivered?? Why would you pull the distributor first?? I'm done playing, I quit!

 

there must have been a reason the truck was delivered on a flatbed........
why didnt they drive it there?
Im just giving my reasoning, take it for what its worth, .......nothing

 

from what you've said i think you're correct that it is a spark issue especially since you've tried starting fluid down the carb...we've started cars with some pretty weak spark before with that stuff (if it doesn't start it will at least burp at you with even a weak spark). i had a similar problem with a weak/ intermittent spark on a customers car before (65 mustang) everything "looked" new points,cap,rotor,wires,and even plugs. after ALOT of going back and forth with running , dying out, missing, and eventually not even starting i noticed that after i 'd gap the points and crank it over they would be shifting around and barely making contact. you could push on the points and they would go right back into place.. ...crank it over and it instantly misaligned . bent the arm a bit and it fired up on que,ran like a champ and down the road it went. i should have noticed it before because i reset the gap at least 5 times, goes to show even though it "looks" new, replacement parts just aren't made that great sometimes. so check out your points and see if they have ANY play when you wiggle the contact arm. good luck

 

Okay you have the 'energizing " spark from the start side of the solinoid but do not have the " run" spark coming from the build up in the coil so ...
Its the solinoid (believe yo have the ford type on the fender?)or wires to it or from it
including the "ground" strap at the frame or the bolt down mounting surface at the starter(slow spin of starter is a clue and heated battery cables...resistance to ground)

so get it spinning goood ... Fresh battery clean connections at all ends of the cables

then check the solinoid with key off in neutral , wheels blocked

jump across the terminals of the solinoid
does it spin better if so suspect the solinoid
if its the same spin suspect the starter motor

so now try jumper with key on

does it fire?

Fresh gas?

With a helper...
Starting fluid while cranking should fire... Even with weak spark .. Air cleaner off! Choke closed by hand............. Used sparingly it should combust.... If it back fires keep cranking to suck all the flame into the intake (hot flame will help it start) be ready to cover larger flame with rag or whatever expect it to backfire as all the previuos tries fuel is liquid in the manifold!

Is it a roller with brakes?
If you have not try push starting it 3rd gear key on rolling away from danger pop the clutch

if it ran with a jump i suspect .. Battery , connections , bad gas,
weak point gap or a bad connection where you have played around somewhere


good luck ..

 

I had the same problem with my 70 International half ton, 232 six just a week ago.. i dont drive it much except in the pasture... it went on the blink and would not start........it would turn over great but not fire at all

I replace, the plugs, plug wires, condenser, dist cap and points..
I saved the points for last as they were the hardest for me to get to, and it had been many yrs since the wires had been replaced..so I just did a complete tune up.........

after removal of the points one could see they were burned really bad,install new ones, that did the trick..now purring like a kitty.

 

i think it had no brakes that is why it was towed

 

If your ignition is working properly, 6 seconds of cranking with the pedal floored will clear out an engine that's been filled to the top of the butterflies with raw gas, or had the cylinders/plugs completely coated with oil (long term storage).

Fouled plugs causing no-start to the extent that they gotta be pulled- that's for single cylinder pull start units, not multi-cylinder electric starter motors. You only gotta have one cylinder hit to pick the speed up to where the others will start hitting.

You want the world's simplest test for spark during cranking? Put a timing light on the coil wire and bring the gun in the car. Pull the trigger when you turn the key, if the gun flashes, you got spark. Rubber band the trigger and leave it underhood where you can see it if cord lenght prevents reaching inside. Real easy way for a noob or veteran to measure progress while troubleshooting & replacing.

If the timing light flashes even a little, focus on timing, cause it's making enough spark

good luck

 

I had a similar problem with my 53 F100 when I first tried to get it running. I had 11.89 volts at the battery so started messing with the distributor, coil, plugs, wires etc. Spent a bunch of money on a good tune-up but my original starting problem wound up being at the battery. Although 11.89 volts seems close enough to 12 volts, you also have to think about the necessary amperage from the battery to turn the motor over. When a battery becomes weak sometimes the Cold Cranking Amps will drop below the level necessary to start the motor. Starter still spins well, but not enough amps. A new battery solved my problems, good luck with yours.

 

I have had a condensor go bad and cause all kind of problems, and I have also had a NEW set of plugs get "gas fouled" from trying to get a motor to start, pumping the throttle, etc. Check a plug again, if it is black on the electrode, clean or change them !! The motor WILL NOT fire if the plugs are sooty ! Good Luck....

 

check the dist ground, the breaker plate should be grounded. use a test light hooked to pos on battery, touch breaker plate and test light should come on. crank it, if the light goes on and off then you have a ground problem. there should be a wire from the breaker plate to the dist housing. the dist is grounded though the housing and engine block.

 

I run into this alot in my line of work, you can have all the voltage you need but, a broken wire will limit the amperage. (flow)

 

ok if you have 11.96 at the coil with the key turned on your voltage is too high it should only be that high while you turn the starter check the resister and see if it is working and also see if it is wired correct. Then take all the plugs out and put a timing light on number one and with a good battery go ahead andspin the motor and set the timing, it won't be spot on but will tell you it is close enough to fire and if you can't get it in time then the motor has jumped timing . If you can get it timed reinstall the plugs and if you have gas it will fire and run, unless you have a major vaccum leak somewhere. May not sound correct to some but I have cranked cars that sat for over 20 years that way and also brand new engines it takes alot of guess work out of it. Also a timing light will tell you if it is really fireing and won't hurt you. IF it doesn't fire go back to basic tune up points, cap, condensor and rotor button make sure all are new Hope this helps you get it going RED

 

My '68 International Travelall (345 V8) ran fine for several months after I bought it. All of a sudden it wouldn't start .... would only give the occasional serious backfire.
Dumbass me decides it's got a worn out timing chain and it's jumped timing. Pulled it all down, and when I popped off the timing cover I'm lookin' at a serious big-ass gear drive timing setup ... no way this stuff is gonna wear out!
To make a long story short, I pulled out the Champion spark plugs and put in something else and it ran fine ever after.
Pissed me off to do all that work for something that simple!
(I did say dumbass, didn't I?)

Good luck with your problem.

 

yea champion plugs suck imho

 

not offten but spark going down rotor to shaft?? happened on old mopar 6 with metal dist clip

 

if a car has been sitting five years i would start from the beginning or you will drive yourself crazy.

drain tank , refill
blow out lines
fuel filter

go through carb

plugs, points, condenser, cap and rotor.

check dist timing

check valve lash and timing chain/gear and cam timing. split overlap on tdc?

wires

coil- check if neg or pos ground

check starter seperate from electrical system

check for ballast resister. replace if bad

make sure 12+ volts

hotwire ign. and starter

start

 

Bingo!!!!!! Start there.. 12 volts cranking 9 volts running...
Dave

 

no spark at the plugs? i would be suspicious of the points and condensor,you all ready changed the coil? stay with the basics first