Installing a nova subframe on a '55 caddy coupe

I'm lookin for any "good" info or pics from someone whose done this clip on a 1955 cadillac or a 1954-1956 with the same frame.
I've decided to go with a rear steer nova sub (68-74). The front steer matches the frame better but the box is out by the bumper. I've scored a super clean rebuilt sub- disc brakes, PS. My caddy front end was spent and I'm goin with a SB chevy/700R
goin to bag it, 4-link/3link the rear etc. laying the frame is the goal. I plan on building a jig to set the wheels and bumpers to original position?. The width seems to be perfect. I know the box/orig.,column may be too close?offset? I can modify the column; done it before. Might fab brackets and install a rack? Fat man stub/M2 was considered, but I'm on a budget and like lots of fabrication and love to hear from all the naysayers.

 

Yes, I ripped the pic until I get one of my own.

 

One way to handle the column hookup is to shorten the column and use a u-joint inside the car as well as at the box. I've done this on two different hook-ups and it works fine. Just be sure to have a solid mount near the bottom end of the column besides at the dash

 

Thanks, yeah, I'd like to stay with orig column shift, not positive where nova box will end up, just heard a guy say his '50 caddy column was too close for a universal, not sure about the '55. Just priced the nova rack conversion at speedway $600! Could fab the brackets, but looks like aftermarket arms are needed?

 

Oh, that nova rack is actually ONLY $800

 

Here's a picture of the '55 caddy when I hauled it off. I traded an old 1990 toyota pick-up for it.

 

So, is the original Cadillac clip damaged ?

If not, I would suggest sticking with it. A 350 GM engine swap is pretty easy to do without going through all the trouble of a Nova graft.

I have a 350/400 set up in my Cadillac but the preference would be the original 331 or better yet, a 472/500.

The 350 will get you where you want to go, but it's nothing like the torque that you need to push a big car like this.

My engine puts out about 375 hp but it's still a bit sluggish on take off.

 

We've kept the stock frame in our 52. I think a nova sub frame would be too light to support that much metal. Although the thought of power steering and disc brakes are tempenting.

We have a 350 in ours and my dad buzzes to Vegas at 70-80 and passes me in my 55 like I'm standing still, and I've got the built Stroker motor.

It took all of about 1 day to put that 350 in ours, it was nothing compared to cutting up a frame.

 

Yes, I'd love to keep the stock front end, but it needs to be rebuilt if I'm gonna pull it apart and clean it up(everything)and the rebuild parts are outrageous, plus my goal is to make it sit on the rockers(a must), have power disc brakes,
and power steering. You've got to modify the a-arms to get it on it's nuts, or buy $500 dropped uprights from fatman('48 chevy-says they'll fit). Disc brakes on the stocker costs $1200 from no limit-engineering. A power steering set up(rack,brackets,and arms) is $1400!!!!! Show me how to do it on the cheap and I'll be stoked.
The nova front end I've scored ($450)is straight, clean and rebuilt,some guy was gonna put it on his muscle nova. As far as the weight and strength don't a lot of rods, trucks and novas with big blocks have the clip?(there's a thread of one-40studedude-he loves it) I figure without the old 331 and cast iron tranny
(it's about 4 ft long) the big drums,springs and steering box and not to mention the hulk of a frame, the whole car will be 3 to 400 pounds lighter? Disc brakes and a dual master too......I don't mind the work, just bad decisions, and week away credit card parts.....A built 350 won't push a '55 caddy along decently? Wasn't the 331 only 230 horsepower?.......Just asking

 

You say 350, is that the stroker? A 383 really won't push it decently? I'm kinda into sound and looks....as long as it's not a slug? What car was your dad driving when he passed you?

 

The 472's were 365 and 375 HP.....sweet! The 500's were only 190 HP......yuck!
I guess they have big torque though.

 

That Nova sub you got will support the weight of a Sherman tank, if you've got one laying around...but it won't go down the road very fast with one on it...I'd use it...it'll handle wonderfully if installed correctly...go for it...

As for the 500" V8's of Cadillac...it depends on what year 500" you get...they started with those in 1970...400 horse, 1971-365 horse, 1972/'73-235 horse, 1974/'75-210 horse,1976-190 horse...after that they went to 425" as the largest...and the early 500's were brutes...

Looks like you've checked into my " '55 Caddy Build", I've tagged on an update on the end of the #5 installment...

R-

 

Do you already have the Nova clip? A front steer clip from a full size car, Caprice, Roadmaster, Fleetwood, may be a better choice for you. Bigger brakes, the same bolt pattern as your rear axle. That Cad is big and wide.

As for the front steer box being in the way of stuff, that shouldn't be an issue. I've done 3 front steer clips, an early 80's Cutlass under a '41Chev, full size Caddy, late 80's under my '48 Pontiac 'vert, and a 93 Caprice under my '51 Pontiac wagon. I had to "massage" the core support under the '48, but e'thing fits, with the stock radiator. Depending on where you splice the frames, and whether you "step" the clip will determine your ride height no matter what way you go, so measure twice, cut once.

I make a temporary fixture with the original frame in place for the core support, bolted or tacked to the firewall. This will show where your new support mount needs to be, and assures the sheet metal will go back on.

Lastly I have to ask you how low do you really think this needs to be? I'm attatching a photo of my '56 vert, which was on cut coils. It'd almost roll a beer can with the bumper (OK, that's an exaggeration, but to jack it up I had to drive it on ramps to get a jack under the bumper or rockers) just with cut coils, and it had plenty of suspension. 400 Pontiac, 400 turbo drivetrain. Pretty low, no? WAY easier than subframing it. Believe me, they drive and handle NICE and have good brakes, especially if you use metallic or ceramic shoes. BTW the Pontiac was an easy swap, and looks alot like the original. I'm a big fan of the 472/500 Cads, but you'd need a rear sump pan and oil pump. You'll want a big torquey engine in the heavy Caddy.

I put a Camaro PS box in it, bolt in for Saginaw GM boxes. Used two of the original steering box mount holes in the frame, and a third on a tang welded to the underside of the frame. Just flip the steering arm around, and you're good to go with quicker ratio, nice new tight steering. S-10's are the same box but slower ratios. Bolts right to the original column with the new "rag" joint.

You REALLY need to think twice about subframing a car, it's a HUGE job and it's very easy to screw up what was a nice car. Be very, very careful out there...

Brian

 

Nice looking Caddy Flynbrian48...still have it...???

I went out and measured the bumper on my '55 Caddy after reading FB48's post...the bottom of it is 4 1/4" off the ground...plenty of room for hiway flyin'...and knocking beer cans over...maybe not pushing them down the road...and that's with the stock Trans Am coils...I can't "lay frame," but I really don't care to either...I simply wanted a nice hiway car...

Yes, FB48 is correct, installing a sub is a HUGE job...it is a lot of work...and it takes longer than you think to get sheet metal & everything else back in place...

R-

 

THe 383 is in my 55 Chevy.

Our Cad has the 350 truck block in it. Once it starts rolling its got tons of power. He was driving the Cad when he passed me on the freeway...6am in the moring going to Vegas and I think I was doing all of 80 or more on that open road when he passed me. Bathroom break was what he claimed, i still think he was trying to show me up.

Oh we cut 2 coils out of the stock springs on ours. He wanted it low but not too low. For the steering, until we get the power in it, we put WW radials on it (Gasp, radials! Oh no!) easier to steer with them on.

My Dad still thinks the Nova sub frame is too light, BUT that's only his opinion. It seems you set on one and the price is right. Please let us know how it turns out.

 

thanks.........I will be air baggin it no matter what...I can adjust the ride height to whatever I want.......yes, I want and need to lay the frame on the ground -when it's parked, check out the thread "55 caddy on the ground floor" something about droppin it all the way down that's addicting and mean lookin. I did a '54 chevy (I'll post some pics) frame off-air ride, the front mustang
II crossmember was in the dirt but the rear 4-link brackets kept it from "layin' rocker" (lacked about an inch and a half)and it's ruined me ever since.
I already have the Nova rear steer SF, I'm not worried about the weight as I reasoned earlier (big blocks,cast trannies etc.) the front steer stuff (they're plentiful I'd love to use one)WILL cause a lot of sheet metal work thru the front support on this model-check out 40studedudes (55 cadillac build) he did a good job though.
Keep typin' though I might change my mind!

 

Whats up '54 - sounds like your Caddy will be bad a$$ - oops!, body part gotta go!

 

'55 caddy engine bays are real short cause of the front cowl etc.
Well, I got the disc brake set up down to $400!(found brackets at scarebird inc.) Now need to find out how to get that rack system down to earth in price(no-limit) for the steering, and you have to buy steering arms or heat and bend the originals. Maybe the original power box will be tight enough for now-will a newer gm pump work with it?

 

Well 54, I just saved you some money toward that rack...both of the hood goddesses I had are gone...someone else decided they needed them...but I have other trim if you need it...plus two sets of fender skirts for sale...!!!

R-

 

I just went and looked at that rack system $1800!!!!!(no limit engineering)They're fishin' for check book builders!!! So what? Do people spend $10k on a front end?

 

A friend of mine went for the jaguar front end (pre 1986 model), it is a rear steer, it comes with 4 pot disc brake and chevy pcd. It is a pretty easy swap as the whole cross member unbolt, so basically you remove the caddy one and made some brackets on the chassis to bolt the jag one.
For the engine he end up installing a big block as a 350 has not enough torque to run smoothly.
Good luck
V

 

Why do you want a rack in that thing...???

R-

 

I got the Kanter rebuild kit, and called it a day, until I realized my Drag Link was busted. $600 from Rare Parts, and I'm golden.

to those who cut coils....how many? 2? how much of a drop did you get? I have Jamco springs, but they are definetly not right, so I am thinking about hacking the factory springs till I can afford Air bags.

Charles

 

If you do use the nova [front steer] subframe and you would like to keep it all 5 on 5" bolt pattern, just grab a pair of 79 seville spindles, balljoints and rotors. calipers and mounts....you end up with 12 inch disc brakes and a 5 inch bolt circle on the wheels. Bolt in a mid-late 70s trans am/Z-28 varaible ratio steering box and the 1.25" stabilizer bar from the trans am/Z-28 and it'll handle like a sports car, stop on a dime and be very pleasant to drive for a heavy caddy. All these parts bolt in a nova/camaro front steer sub and are pretty easy to still find.

 

What he said,and

From flynbrian48 " I put a Camaro PS box in it, bolt in for Saginaw GM boxes"
What he said

I don' think you want a rack and pinion on that heavy MoFo, unless it comes from a vehicle of the same weight. Those late model Camaro/TransAm boxes are some of the best ever built. And strong!
Gary

 

I don't want to go with that rack system(I won't for that price-unless I fab my own kit) if I dont have to. Just wanted to get rid of that $600 dollar caddy center link, and the original caddy power box(most of my reason for wanting to clip it)- it completely fills the space next to the engine, and I want to run block hugger headers on the 350....among other things
I ALREADY BOUGHT THE (REAR STEER) NOVA CLIP. The track width is perfect! .......but I could easily sell it if you guys talk me into keeping the original front end, but I'm not going to decide against it because it's "too much work" It puzzles the hell out of me to hear that from a "HAMBER" type car guy.
Back to weight on the nova SF......it's gonna have 2600# air bags, a lighter motor, and a much lighter tranny, lighter wheels, lighter frame...I bet it trims 3 to 400 pounds.......I can even install bigger discs if needed.
Ive already stripped the front end (motor, sheet metal-wheels and steering still there)..........should I flip a coin?
Now I'm just askin?...........ASSuming that it's (the clip)welded and "reinforced properly" at the graft, why would it be to "light" for the big caddy? ......(remember the air bags, big power discs and the lightening of the drivetrain)

 

You sound determined to sub frame it, and bag it in order for it to look like it's broken when parked. I don't understand how you think the box gets in the way, a rear steer Nova or Camaro clip has the box in the same place. Go ahead on then and whack the frame off at the firewall, just be advised it's lots harder than swapping a Saginaw box in, and you're going to have the same clearance issues (if any) when you do. Some of us grizzled grey bearded guys have cut up, butchered up, fixed up enough stuff and regretted it later to try to save you some trouble. Buy hey, it's your car...Just because you can, doesn't always mean you should.

Been there, done that, got the T shirt.

 

Thanks for the friendly advice buddy. Have you guys ever seen the type of guy that walks around a car show grumbling about what people have done wrong instead of admiring the effort? I'd be grumpy too if I lived up in that frozen tundra of a state,(no offense to the friendlier michiganites!) How's the weather? My posts are me thinking out loud about this project, taking the reasonable responses seriously. Can you say CABIN FEVER. Why not drive that chitty chitty bang bang contraption out on some thin ice, cut a hole and stick your head in it and count the carp, I'll go out to the beach in one of my "broken" rides here in Florida and count the bikinis. Have a great day!

 

Brian,
I was considering the the great tip about bolting in that Z-28 box, Then I read the crap about "whacking" and "broke" cars etc. I had to fire back, I never wanted to clip the car in the first place, just wanted a power steering and disc brakes option that was all newly rebuilt and affordable. I added up the rebuild parts (a-arms, idler arm,tie rod ends,bearings,center link etc.) over $1400.00 (kanter, coopers) That doesn't include any brake parts. The nova clip I bought has all new parts.

 

Do you think that you could get the original clip tightened up by replacing all the rubber componets without having to replace tie rod ends, control arms, etc.. I've found that the original Cadillac equipment is built to a lot higher standard than most cars and sometimes all you need is to "freshen" them up a bit.

Also, power steering was standard equipment on 55 Cadillacs, and I've been able to run late model GM power steering pumps directly to the Cadillac steering box. The threads were the same, although the hose configurations are different. I just cut the ends of mine off and had a new hose made.

As far as disk brakes go, there is a guy on e-bay that sells a disk brake conversion for 59/60 Cadillacs for about 160.00. You just have to get the calipers, disks, and other stuff at a wrecking yard. You might look into information on an earlier conversion kit if they make one.

I have owned a 56 Cad in the past and the front drums and components look a lot like the ones on my 60.