need insight on why swap frames.

I was wondering, at what point is it a better choice to do an entire frame swap to a 'late model' frame-such as S10, Dakota, GM G or A body etc...
than just using what you started with-***uming you have a car from the late forties or later.
If you already have independant front suspension, likely disc brake kit available, etc... is it easier to swap an entire frame than just rebuild what you already have and make improvements as needed/desired?

 

there are too many variables here.your direction on build,skill level,parts availeability,weakness of stock frame.

i have only done one frame swap.i set a merc on a lincoln frame and floor pan.all my other builds i use existing frames and upgraded as desired.

 

I guess my thoughts are:
1) 'traditional' style car,
2) I don't want to get into skill levels. I think we have all seen people do stuff that is way beyond their skill level.
3)parts availability-you can get rebuild parts for nearly anything from Kanter or other suppliers.
4) strength of stock frame? how much stronger is a G body than a mid 50s Gm perimeter frame?

Engine mounts are so easy to make fit your orig frame if doing an engine swap. As far as I can see, the hardest thing is getting a power steering box mounted if you want PS. on your orig frame.

Likely if you get a junkyard late model frame, it will need a front end rebuild, shocks, brake and fuel lines etc... plus you need to make it fit your orig body.

 

Sure seems like a lot of work for little gain to me.

 

I'm putting a dakota frame under my 53 dodge truck. I am doing it for a couple of reasons, but the most important reason is that my wife will have this as her daily driver and having all stock suspension, power steering, brakes and a rack and pinion appeals to me as it should be a safe, reliable unit for her.

 

It gets done in my neck of the woods usually because the stock frames and floors have severe rust damage. It wouldn't make sense to cut up a rust free '50 Mercury and put it on a '78 Olds frame, but it might make sense to do that on a Merc with no floor sheetmetal left and a swiss cheezed frame.

A lot of trucks also get S-10 frames and the like, the benefit there is being able to build based only on a cab or based on a 2 1/2 ton grain truck where only the cab and front clip are useable and a box is going to be built.

Those are the only reasons I see. There would be no reason to replace a nice solid frame from under a 50's car or a half ton truck when suspension upgrades would do the job better.

 

I did a frame swap on my 2 trucks because one was built from parts and had no stock frame to use and the other because the old frame and drivetrain had been sitting in the dirt for 40 years and all was froze solid. The S-10 ch***is's i decided to use because they where cheap to get, cheap to get replacement and upgrade parts for and fit the trucks pretty good.

 

remember , you asked for it.....in my opinion , people look for frame swaps because they are looking for a cheap , easy and fast way to make a hot rod out of some POS car they dragged home. and they lack any real talent to do it the right way.

most get into it and then find out all they have done is make an even bigger pile of ****....


just my opinion

 

while it may work for some i dont see any resale value in a frame swap.

 

If you want a new car, buy a new car. Frame swap= booooo, hissssss.

 

gawd I love you guys.......

 

Old Cars that have much of a frame or floor are hard to come by here . And If I'm going to have to build new floors for a '46 Plymouth fourdoor held together by the roof, doors, and trans tunnel I'm sure as hell not going back to a knee-action/drum set up.

If it puts another old car on the road, or atleast in someones garage, and out of the s**** pile and eventually building a Skys****e in China, than I accept it. But I would never take a decent car to start with, and cobble up some G-body **** underneath it and hack the floor to death.

 

Because Borgeson joints, tilt steering columns, air conditioning, big ugly seats, digital gauge panels, centre consoles, nasty looking wheels, electronic fuel injection, power brake boosters, power window motors, side and rear view mirrors, lighting, wiring and all kinds of other "useful" items come with the donor car that only cost $400 because nobody else wanted it. These scavenged items are very handy and easily adaptable when removing all the good, original parts that give a car it's soul and character and turning it into an ugly old car body transplanted onto a "late model ch***is" that is itself probably 25 years old and worn out.

Or, they get satisfaction from watching innocent people vomit in their own mouths when they are tricked into seeing the late model tilt column and other wonderful late model touches scavenged from the donor car not so tastefully or seamlessly integrated into the interior of what would otherwise appear to be a nice old car.

Or, they wanted disc brakes and power steering and decided to cut two cars in half and weld them together to get there all while saving a few bucks.

I don't get it myself?

 

I still don't understand the logic behind retrofitting ****ty outdated accessories from a 20 year old car into a 60 year old car.

I do understand taking a ****ty 60 year old car, saving it from some redneck ****** it with their tractor and rolling it onto a trailer to be hauled off for s****, and reviving it with a less ****tier, more easily serviceable 20 year old ch***is.

I do agree, that in some instances original is better, but most suspension, steering, and driveline components on alot of cars in places with alot of moisture or winters has usually long been fused together with rust and corrosion, and would probably exceed the cars value to replace with...of course, Original pieces.

Poor workmanship is poor workmanship however. My '54 F-100/S-10 Ch***is is a piece of ****, but it had been scavenged for parts and the previous owner had decided it was either to be fused to a Bronco II ch***is to go "mudding" or be hauled off for s**** (the more likely choice, as he later tore down his trailer to sell the steel and other metals out of) so I feel like I saved it from a horrible fate.

 

We bought a '53 Chevy 2dr a couple of years ago. It was a nice overall car with typical areas needing to be patched, and no motor/trans. but a camaro rear already installed. Plus some vintage Brian B*** pinstriping (sorry Brian it's all sanded off now)

When looking for an engine, we came across a cheap '89 Caprice with the 305 and 200R4. We got the Caprice and I figured I was just going to do a full frame swap and that it's be easy and we'd have the car on the road quickly. This was mainly because it's my gals car and she's 5'3" and 100 pounds soaking wet. So I needed her to be able to drive it without any issues.

Then I started tinkering with the '53 and thought, ah what the hell, I'll just build some mounts and toss in the 305/200R4 and rebuild the stock stuff. Besides my great grandma was 5 foot tall and drove these cars without any trouble back in the good old days.

The frame swap would have caused the need for major modification to the floors, firewall, and I couldn't cut the ol gal up like that.

So I gutted the Caprice, put the motor and trans in the '53 and swapped the TBI/Serpentine for a 4bbl/V-Belts, Rebuilt the front suspension and brakes, and made it mechanically safe. I feel alot better about using original stuff than new stuff. It's part of the car and it retains it's soul. I could have made a better engine choice, but it's a budget driver. If we want power steering and disc brakes, I'll do an MII clip in the future, but as for now, it sits fine, rides fine, stop fine, and I can sleep at night knowing that it hasn't been hacked together with **** off a newer car.

Since then, I discourage any frame swaps, and really don't care for front clips. I guess it all depends on the budget and the vehicle, but that's my $.02.

Fresh off the trailer...


Getting cleaned up...


Fighting the good fight...


Conquered in 1 hour...


Rebuilt...


Smoothed...


Mount...


Installed...


Ridin Dirty...

 

How about cuz a shoebox ford has a real **** front end with junk steering and to make it turn/stop worth a **** it costs around 2K in parts and you still don't have ball joints/powersteering and have bumpsteer and body roll

I don't think there's a right or wrong answer but you can make a good argument on either side

I can 100% agree that a botched front clip with tires that are located wrong in the wheelewell makes it worth zero in my book

 

I understand it both ways... Suspensions have gotten so much better than they were. I also understand the desire to keep it original. If the it is quality work and done correctly I'm not offended either way.

Half the stuff from Kanter is questionable quality at best....

 

Sounds about right. Especially the cheap easy part.

 

***Ok, they are just one source that everyone seems familiar with. I get a lot of parts from NAPA or spend the time to try to locate old stock from old parts houses etc...
As far as quality, you are probably right, but most guys are buying the cheapest parts available to rebuild the late model stuff from pepbosy or some other ****hole.

 

Th best part of this thread: "I do understand taking a ****ty 60 year old car, saving it from some redneck ****** it with their tractor and rolling it onto a trailer to be hauled off for s****..." LOL

Back to the point of the thread, I would only do it where the swap was real easy and clean. My neighbor did it with an S-10 ch***is under a mid-fifties Chevy truck, (and he did not want it traditional...his call I guess). The swap was easy for him because things lined up well, and it turned out as a good little driver, handles well, etc.

Lots of people out there want old on the outside, new on the inside.

 

I am with Texas********. When I put the 54 Chevy together for my wife and kids to drive, safety was No. 1. I rebuilt the front end (with good quality stuff), installed orig Vette 'off road/roadcourse' springs, which are stiffer than the stock I-6 springs, and Carrera shocks all around from a speed shop I used to work at.
I ended up doing a disc conversion, only because I needed new front drums. One was oversized and the cost of two drums new was something like $320 or so. I did the complete swap including roller bearings, dual chamber master etc.. for a few hundred more.
A big factor many people overlook on early cars is the addition of or upgrade of front (and rear) sway bars.
Anyhow, I ended up with a car that has suspension like a 'roadcourse' solid axle Vette. The limiting factor now is the Bias ply tires it runs.
Not to mention, it helps to be able to do a proper front end alignment on the older stuff. Many younger guys don't understand the adjustment procedures for caster/camber on the older stuff and only set the toe.

No need to put 'new' suspension in an old car and only put 8-10k on it a year. The way I figure it, it should be a long time before it needs a rebuild.

 

The difficulity is directly related to you desire and ability, regardless of what everyone else say's, I put a 88 dakota under a 50 chevy pickup and I thought it was very easy and I used a lot of the dakota parts, seat ,power brake pedal and booster , gas pedal . I think you need to look at some finished swaps and see what others have done right, and wrong , then deside for yourself. I not afraid to try and thing, some of the harder stuff takes a day or two longer. The most important thing is the selection of the doner car, or truck. Good luck, Dan

 

I am in process of doing a stock framed '48 chev 3100 with IFS front suspension as well as a '53 chev 2 ton cab on a S-10 frame (because I had it). If I had to do it over again, I would have sold the S-10 frame and build a custom ch***is or sourced an original frame. Original frames fit. Old suspensions can be updated. Clipped cars scare me, and frame swaps are a pain in the **** unless the body's underside was rotten and you had to rebuild it anyway.

Thats my $0.02

 

If the car has no floors or frame left, it makes sense. If it's solid, then it's just the lazy man's way out.. except that it ends up just as much work if not more than as doing it the right way. But most people see their labor as free, so they don't figure it to cost just as much.

Pickups are another story, since using a late frame lets you use that solid cab off some 3+ ton truck that never saw salt because it was too high off the ground.

FWIW, the last time I priced the drum that interchanges to '53 Chevys, they were $70 a shot and you could buy them most anywhere because the same 51-58 front drum is also the rear drum '51-'67 or '68.

 

I could be wrong on the price of the drums, but I could swear they were over $100 each by quite a bit.(?) it is irrelevant now though. My point was the disc conversion was not a whole lot more coin.

 

Plain and simple.....it's called hot rodding! Started long agao when some kid stuck a 29 roadster body on a 32 ch***is.

It's funny how one guy says it's the "easy" way out and another guys says it's the hard way.

The benefits...get's the truck low, good handling, easy to get parts, it can be cheap and it can be fairly easy.
Clark

 

My avatar is my daily driver. It's on an S-10 frame. I used the tilt column also, and an 8 1/2" rear end w/discs out of a Highrider S-10. I'm running a '65 327 out of a 65' Caprice and a 200-4r ******. When I did the swap, I weighed my options and yes, I went with the swap because it was cheaper than a MII setup. My original frame was bent and the suspension was shot, so I took the "easy" way out. If I could do it all over again, I probably wouldn't have swapped frames. I would have either bought a new ch***is that was made for my truck, or fixed the OG frame and went with the MII setup.

The truck rides & drives 100% better than before, but I'm not happy with my ride height. I wanted a full bed, so I mounted everything according to the bed height. Now I've decided I'd rather have a more shallow bed and a lower ride height. Oh well....hind sight is 20/20.

There are those that feel a swap like this is only done by people with limited or poor fabrication skills, and I'm sure many swaps like this have been done by hacks. But, do they think people like **** Dean, who have used newer(70's & 80's) GM ch***is on '49 to 51' Mercs , lack talent?

Opinions are like a-holes.................

My frame swap obviously required some fabrication, on which I have done a quality job. It is safe to drive and serves the purpose I originally intended. I wasn't taking the lazy way either. Next time I'd give it a little more thought before such a swap, taking into consideration what I wanted to end up with when my project was all done.

 

AMEN! You said it, Clark!

 

When I was into Street Rods it seemed the more you BOUGHT the better the car. You didn't have **** unless you tore the car down to nuthin', threw away all the stock stuff, got out your credit card and started ordering the "improved" parts... improved usually meant some kind of frame/sub-frame swap.

These last 15 years or so I have more "respect" for the old iron. I like the way the old stuff drives... solid axles, drum brakes, Chevy 6's and the like. I'd sooner rebuild and old 210, maybe re-power it, and keep it pretty much like a stocker except gettin' it low/chopping/etc.

Plus it's easier IMHO.

Old cars are only fun when they DRIVE like old cars.

 

Plus, it's just another great exercise in life lessons, if you're a glutton for punishment.