I might be looking at a 302 for a powerplant soon. Lets ***ume I know the bare minimum about this engine at this point, can you guys please point me in the direction of some of the best informational sites? Suggest any good books, etc. I just want to know what I should be looking for when pulling a motor, as well as any good 302 secrets/tricks that I should know about in the future. Thanks, -Scott
GMC put them in a lot of school busses around 1958, give or take a few years. look there for them. You were talking about the GMC 302 inline 6, right? It's the only "real" hotrod engine called a 302.
Be sure to not get 50oz and 28oz parts mixed up (cranks, balancers, flywheel). "H.O" 302s use the 351W firing order. Match your firing order to whichever cam you're using. There were several varieties of oil pans/pickups, dipstick locations, water pump depth, valvetrain parts like rocker arm studs, pushrods/lifters (flat tappet or roller), etc. I ***ume you're talking about Fords, btw. There's hundreds of webpages on what to look out for. Browse the old Mustang boards for specifics. When it comes to Ford, it's best to just pull a complete running setup out of a car. They're a damned headache compared to Chevrolet stuff.
[ QUOTE ] Yes, I'm talking fords. Sorry if there was any confusion. [/ QUOTE ] I knew that Just yankin' yur chain...
The 302 that used the 3.00" stroke from the 283 and the 4.00" bore block of the 350 is the only 302 worth talking about.
[ QUOTE ] The 302 that used the 3.00" stroke from the 283 and the 4.00" bore block of the 350 is the only 302 worth talking about. [/ QUOTE ] Yea, but. if you wanna hide a V8 under a stock br*** T hood a 260" Ford with milled heads and milled stock exhaust manifolds will get the job done. They are narrow! Besides, we don't need a Chevy vs Ford debate...both of those 302s are too new to be considered "traditional" by ****-retentive-resto-traditionalists anyway...
I just can't afford a flathead right now. I'm going to pull the merc, and maybe rebuild it in a year or so. I've stumbled upon a very affordable 302 setup, without a carb, but with a radiator. That might get me back on the road for the time being, and let me evaluate other options down the road when the cash is flowing a little more It'll either be a 302 or 350 for the next year or two, which will give me plenty of time to learn about and piece together the kind of engine I really want to get in here. -Scott
Plenty of info on SBF - check the Tech-O-Matic too - here's one to get you started: Fat Hacks' Tech-O-Matic SBF Tome
Anybody have any specific hints for me if I'm going to put this into a 49 shoebox? I read the tech threads, great stuff Too bad these engines are so all over the place in design and components! -Scott
im here to bust your balls... This is the HAMB. Dont puss out-- have you even looked for a flathead? im just sayin... you've spent more time on the hamb than looking for your motor... and a 302 is far from something trad to put in your shoebox... I had a 5.0 with NOS and they're great motors for a Mustang... ok... I would put a early 283 chevy in that car before a 302. 302's **** for nostalgia because they dont have any... you cant drop 3 94's on top of one or 6 for that mater... why because they're TOO NEW. Shouldnt you go join the rodders round table message board or something instead of the hamb?
[ QUOTE ] Anybody have any specific hints for me if I'm going to put this into a 49 shoebox? [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, get a van pan out of an Econoline - they're basically flat. Typical SBF is front sump, Bronco & Fox-body are dual/rear sump - the van pan is almost flat with a little mid-sump. Hard to find, worth the hunt if yer puttin' one in a shoebox. [ QUOTE ] Too bad these engines are so all over the place in design and components! [/ QUOTE ] I don't get it? SBF stuff is simple & pretty straight foward. There's only a few things that don't interchange. Ain't quite as simple or common as SBC, but they're narrower & lighter.
Tuck, Thanks for the info. I'll see what they have to say. I guess I'm just looking for something that I can learn easily on, then work into something more traditional. I'm not sure where else to start. -S
The basic design for the "modern" 302 Ford has been around since 1962 when the 221 cubic inch small block was released...though changes were made as the engine's design evolved, and displacement gradually increased, the external dimensions are pretty much the same. That's right...1962...the year the mystical movie "American Grafitti" is set in! If Milner had truly been a cutting edge gearhead, he woulda been running a hot new 221 in that pee colored contraption of his! (Not that it woulda gained him anything...Falfa's Chevy woulda still smoked it...but it would have at least LOOKED cooler!) Ha Ha Ha Ha!!! Okay, fun aside...there's no shame in running a 302 in your Ford, if that's what you want to do. They're lighter than a small block Chevy by over a hundred pounds, and they are reliable, plentiful and cheap. Dress it any way that suits your tastes...you can locate 60s era speed equipment and dress-up items for small block Fords and build an engine that looks totally "period correct" for, say, 1965 or so...if you care to. Hell, it's your car and YOU gotta build it, drive it and work on it...so base your drivetrain choices on that criteria. Don't rush blindly into something you know little about...do some research, talk to a few folks, and make an educated plan. From a degree of difficulty standpoint, keeping the car Flathead powered is the easiest, but may involve a little extra legwork and expense....however, all the little "nickle and dime" costs ***ociated with an engine swap and related drivetrain upgrades may quickly put the 302 plan into a higher dollar bracket than just replacing your Flattie. Think about it...
Alright dude... Your indimidated..I was too at first but you need to change your direction....you are looking at it from the wrong perspective. The flatheads are cool. They always will be... I Kept mine...relied on the hamb for parts, and answers and GUIDANCE.. I listened, struggled, confused myself more than I can remember. I rebuilt mine in a year with the help of Ryan (intake), Rocky (super rocky race pistons), flat top bob (intake valves), and tuck (paint and old wisdom) and bugman (basic rebuild techniques)...i could have wimped out and pulled "the tired old flattie" for something..but I didn't by choice.. I wanted the respect and authenticity.. Old guys don't talk to you about the 350 in your car..they smile about the old engine you brought back to life.. You don't take pride in something you buy you take in from something you do..start moving your hands on the cool engine in your ford instead of this keyboard and your world will open up.. Just trying to help, tok
[ QUOTE ] im here to bust your balls... This is the HAMB. Dont puss out-- have you even looked for a flathead? im just sayin... you've spent more time on the hamb than looking for your motor... and a 302 is far from something trad to put in your shoebox... I had a 5.0 with NOS and they're great motors for a Mustang... ok... I would put a early 283 chevy in that car before a 302. 302's **** for nostalgia because they dont have any... you cant drop 3 94's on top of one or 6 for that mater... why because they're TOO NEW. Shouldnt you go join the rodders round table message board or something instead of the hamb? [/ QUOTE ] Oh Rochester!
A 289/302 is 115 pounds lighter than a SBC, and getting 350HP out of one is cheap and easy ever since the aftermarket started making heads to replace the restrictive stockers. Add aluminum heads/manifold/etc, and a SBF will only weigh about 60lbs more than an all-aluminum Buick 215 engine. Power to weight ratio, baby. It works. SBF's can look fairly traditional, but you do have to work at it a bit more. Django and Pigiron's engines are good examples. Here's the 302 that's going into my '49 F1:
Scott...Gimme $450.00 for one of my 255 Merc's....buy a set of rings and bearings, do a quick freshen-up, and put it in the shoebox OR Gimme $1,200.00 and I sell ya the motor, put in the rings and bearings and install it for ya! I'll do it at my shop in Waupaca and will pick it up and deliver it back to you for an extra $150.00.
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