EFI on 351C Brilliant idea or hair brained scheme?

God damn crazy kids!!!!..... Get off my lawn!!!

 

it's the people here that make the hamb what it is, not the html coding behind it. i offer many thanks to the man behind the scenes but the world of traditional hot rods has been and always will be bigger than the hamb. the hamb is awesome but it isn't everything.

i offer a truce brother. everyone here is different as you and i have so blatantly shown on these past couple of pages. you say potato, i say beef jerky.

my apologies.

 

Hell, for that matter the 351C doesn't fit "Traditional" either since they didn't come out till 1970

Oh man, i ran out of popcorn

 

I'v got to kinda take issue with that statement.

Anybody who knows about the Chrysler EFI knows about Bob Dupin. Bob was one of my very best friends... I'v had my hands all over that 1958 EFI system. Infact, I personally rebuilt the in tank fuel pump on his 300.

A couple years before he died, I got my hands on a complete MPFI off a late 80's Chevrolet, and me and him sat up in his garage all night disecting it and comparing it to the 1958 system.

At the break of dawn, we had reached the conclusion that they were both pretty much the same. Technology had taken some tremendous leaps forward, but when it came right down to it, you could compare the 2 systems side by side and part for part... and everything matched up.

So now we come down to the "traditional" thing....
While EFI was incredibly rare in the traditional era, it did exist. As did turbo chargers, disc brake conversions, frame swaps, and IRS.
What did not exist were "Hot Hemi Heads", Turbo 400's, Camaro disc brakes, Jaguar IRS's, S-10 frames, and a million other things that are readily accepted here today.

Why do we accept some things that are not traditional, and reject other things that are?????

The line between trad, and non trad can get a little blurry... But I feel pretty confident in knowing when the line has indeed been crossed.

A tupperware '32 sitting on a chromolly tube frame with a MPFI 305 and a 700-R4 is definately not HAMB material... But if this guy wants to try and cobble together a bunch of junkyard parts to FI a 40 year old motor,,, Well, I personally am going to give him a little lee-way before I judge his endeavor to be anti-HAMB.

Infact, I'll go a step beyond that... If he manages to do it using a carburetor intake manifold with injector bungs welded to it, and he uses the base plate off an old carburetor as his throttle-body, and then he covers the whole deal up with an air cleaner that goes on a carb, I'd call it 100% traditional, because that's exactly what 'Ma Mopar did in '58.

 

I like beef jerky, and I'm sure I'd like your Bonneville ride, I may have to look and see if you posted about it yet. I understand your points as well. But don't just dismiss the potato. I apologize as well, the HAMB is a nice little corner of the web where I get my fix for this stuff. I like to visit some of the other sites as well... I can't get my desmo fix here...

 

While EFI was incredibly rare in the traditional era, it did exist. As did turbo chargers, disc brake conversions, frame swaps, and IRS.
What did not exist were "Hot Hemi Heads", Turbo 400's, Camaro disc brakes, Jaguar IRS's, S-10 frames, and a million other things that are readily accepted here today.

Bingo.

 

Why didnt anybody bash me when I asked about putting EFI on a 235 but everybody jumps on this guy for asking the same qestion. I'll just stoke the fire a little my 1946 Chevrolet 1/2 ton is going to be sitting on a S-10 frame and its going to have either a LS1 or a 5.3 liter Chevy int bolted to a 5 speed or maybe even a 6 speed.

 

oh come on... turbo 400's are 64 and jag irs 62... don't burst my balloon.

 

I am going to get some popcorn anybody need anything while I am up?

 

I was gonna say "Mustang II's and T-5's, but then I thought of you!

 

I can feel the love...

 

I still like my Hilborn idea...........

 

Ok... Now this thread is fun again.

 

I think my big block Model T needs an anti lock brake system.

 

Google it..... ABS is from the traditional era as well!

First used on aircraft as far back as 1929.... Which fits in well with the aircraft "bomber" seats that are sooo HAMB friendly.

 

I believe there is a place for modern technology, (like limited slip differentials) in a rod, as long as is not too visually intrusive. The main objection to EFI seems to be that they are ugly and look quite out of place, and that may be true. But there is no denying the technical superiority. So why not a concealed electronic EFI ? People have been successfully hiding nitrous systems for decades.

 

So 76 posts so far and the last one that was of actual info to the OP was #26.

Nice!

 

could have not said it better,right on

 

hamb material or not.. you asked a question about adapting 5.0L EFI to a 351 engine..

I can see the benefits of a efi, but I propose that both the stock chevy tpi and the mustang fuel injection system are UGLY.. and have no place in an open engine bay..

I will openly admit to installing a TPI in a "street rod" that I currently own and further

I will openly admit that it was the best thing I have ever done for the particular car (which is still "under construction" but starts every time at the first turn of the key)


for my current project "the recycled 40 ford woodie"
I've been looking long and hard at converted hilborn's, MEgasquirt systems, FAST ecu's etc etc. and I even considered adapting a stock chevy ecu and wiring to a custom intake

at this point I have come to the conclusion that in the end I will do what makes me happiest (and my wallet)

perhaps the best way to answer the question is this:

if you are a retired "software guy" I think you might be slightly disappointed at the amount of "adjusting" that you can do with a stock ecm and a stock efi intake.

if you want to tweek code (which is something I hope to be able to do too) you should look long and hard at an aftermarket ecu and wiring..

currently I am weighing the cost vs. benefit of an efi conversion and don't (on the "recycledf40fordwoodie project) foresee an advantage to using a efi engine..

your situation (mileage) may very, opinions (mine included) are worthless..

I wish you the best!

ps..

just a reminder..

mustang efi intake manifolds are UGLY..

 

here's a thought- and it would kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

I am pretty sure there is a hillborn injection set up for 351. I recently saw where a fella had re-crafted it as an electronic system instead of mechanical. (kinda makes sense if You are planning on running silly stuff, like You know...a water pump.)- the things I have no idea about are the following-
map or maf? I didn't see signs of either one. which means it was using almost purely t.p.s.- which can downright loathsome in a hurry.

it also ran open headers. no sign of o2 sensors either. outside of smell, how the hell is this guy tuning it with no reference?

The 5.0 intake is ugly as sin be it under a hood, or out in the open. there HAS TO BE A BETTER WAY. I don't care what it is, but that thing is ...barf. and it makes adjusting valves a pain in the ass.

wasn't mooneyes or someone making throttle bodies that looked like 97's (okay. they looked 97"ish") or something like that? what about turning 4 of those sideways and simply building an adapter to the lower plenum?


wait a minute....what board am I on again?

 

if you tune it once with o2 sensors and never fuck with the tune again you can technically take the o2 sensors off. also, map sensors can be remote mounted and totally hidden. nine times out of twelve if you don't see a maf sensor it's a probably speed density setup with a map sensor.

 

I tried to buy 6 last year and they didn't have them.... do they ever have anything?

 

Maybe we need to look up the word TRADITIONAL this is from Webster's Dictionary.
<TABLE class=luna-Ent><TBODY><TR><TD class=dnindex>1.</TD><TD>of or pertaining to tradition.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=luna-Ent><TBODY><TR><TD class=dnindex>2.</TD><TD>handed down by tradition.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=luna-Ent><TBODY><TR><TD class=dnindex>3.</TD><TD>in accordance with tradition.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=luna-Ent><TBODY><TR><TD class=dnindex>4.</TD><TD>of, pertaining to, or characteristic of the older styles of jazz, esp. New Orleans style, Chicago style, Kansas City style, and Dixieland. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Funny, it doesn't say anything about that it needs to be duplicated exactly

 

Fuel injection all the way if the ECM is set up right you never have to tune again and it will start up the first time on a cold day. But I'm still going to run carbs on one of my trucks and fuel injection on the other.

 

Wow! I made that post and went to work, came back and found I had insitgated a shit storm of postings. So in the hope of putting this thread to rest I would like to say the following:
I did not intend to push the limits of this site when I asked my question. I am still new to the HAMB and did not realize it would be controversial. Otherwise I would have asked a question about politics or religion. At any rate I meant no harm.
Second, my thanks to those who offered suggestions. I have taken notes as I read thru the responses and will follow up with some research.
For those who seemed interested, I am sixty five years old. I started messing with my cars in 1959 and never stopped. I ocassionaly raced at Half Moon Bay, Fremont and Cotati is the early sixties so I have an appreciation for the old days. But I love doing things I have not done before especially if they are not commonly done in the hobby.
Since I am old I am moved to offer some advice. Every one of my close friends is into cars and every one of my friends is fighting some significant life altering illness. It comes with the golden years. The point of this is, none of this car stuff is worth fighting about, time is too valuable to waste it that way. Enjoy the hobby and behave yourselves.

 

Easy to tune. You only need to have an oxygen sensor for closed loop operation. Carbs all run open loop, and so will an EFI system run open loop extremely well without any problems. All the EFI system needs is to know how much air is going into the engine. Induction pressure and temperature after the throttle is all it requires to sense engine load.

 

dcstreetrods I am also in the 60's (66) retired and now have the time to work on my coupe, I enjoy it and like the challenges which are harder to overcome as I get older but love the HAMB my EFI is shown below.




Vergil

 

Yup, very nice Vergil. That is how I would do it.

 

Vergil
That is awesome. Thanks for the pic.
dcstreetrods

 

The traditional look, with any radical blower or carb set up you wish to run. But the very latest engine management technology for control of both fuel and spark. The very best of both worlds IMHO.