Hi guys, I ran across a flathead for $100 bucks on CL and was considering jumping off the deep end and taking it on as a rebuild project. I know little to nothing about flatheads, but figure if I take it slow, ask lots of questions, and read up (e.g. Ron Holleran's book) I may be able to pull it off. Anyway, the engine is a 41 24 stud (21A right?). The owner tells me this was a year in which all cylinders were sleeved factory (really?), and it has 59ab heads. So, should I be concerned that later heads might indicate its been rebuilt, should I steer away from a sleeved block factory or not?, Or, am I just a dumb*** for even considering this? cj
for $100, how can you really go wrong as long as you take your time and do it right. Ask a ton of questions, there are some really invaluable guys on here who can answer pretty much any Q you'll have.
Not all early blocks were sleeved the only way to confirm is a head. Yes, some blocks were sleeved from the factory, this was to ***ist and speed up rebuilds. It was possible to pull the pan, head and piston. Pull the sleeve drop in a new sleeve and piston and be back up and running in a day.
Watch out for cracks.Most flatheads have cracks which cant be fixed or are very costly to fix especially ones costing$100
Thats what I was most afraid of. Going through the cost of Magnafluxing the block (no idea what that costs) only to find its ****. I guess that for $100 bucks, if that happened I could still make use of the heads and intake, and try to find another block. I'd buy one in pieces, but I like the idea of pulling it apart so I can learn something.
Many of the cracked blocks of the '50s thru the '90s which were s****ped would be today's keepers. Most blocks can be saved via repair procedures such as pinning or sleeving. It's all a matter of how much time & $ you want to spend looking for the perfect block vs the $ to fix one tha's less than perfect. Cracks in the pan rail and the center main web are pretty much a death sentence. Others (on the top side) need serious evaluation rather than summarily condemned.
Do a good visual inspection before you spend the money on Magnafluxing. Wire brush it good around the valves. Most the time you can see a bad block just by looking at it. If you can't see anything then start spending money. FWIW I did a 59AB last year, cracks in two cylinders. Block was ported/ relieved, stroked crank. We opted to repair the block to salvage the previous work, repair came out fine and didn't cost as much as replacing the block (with modifications) would of been.
You can get sleeves out and dosent take much bore to make it 3 3/16. Those blocks dont crack as bad as the later blocks.
id offer the seller 50$ & tell him its proberbly cracked. if its not, your winning & if it is, you got yourself a great garden ornament. or lounge table stand!
Congradulations and welcome to the dark and ****** side of Ford flatheads. Take her right down to parade rest. Learn as you go, then go back and read and learn some more. Even if the block is junk you will learn a lot of neat ****. As said above, clean it really good and visually inspect it. ( the ****** part comes when you remove the valve train.)Cracks running toward valves, on pan rails or in the main area are not good. Other crack like from the studs to the water jackets are pretty much normal. If it looks salvagable take it to get cleaned and inspected. A word of caution, Most machine shops do not know these blocks. If the wrong guy starts at it he can ruin it. (Start with the fact that the valve angles are different from side to side and that the cam is not in the center of the block.) Then, when all is ready you had better bring your billfold. I can build 3 stock SBCs for what it costs to build a flathead. You will never spend so much to go so slow
Maybe I'm one of those guys that hits himself in the head with a hammer because if feels so good when i stop I think that barring any obvious cracking, and if I can find a way to get the damn thing home, I going to buy it. If anyone knows of a flathead freindly machine shop in Washington State, preferably east of the cascades, Id appriciate a heads up. thanks for the advice guys
Good question, I don't know. No mention of it being froze and I havent asked. Guess I just ***umed it was cheaper because its less desirable than the 59A.
On 221's check the bore, NOT just look at the #'s on the pistons, I have one with .040's and one with .060's but they are out of a 239 so they are actually .165's and .185's over, which is questionable for a next rebuild
Be careful of making generalized statements including "most". I've either been extremely lucky or "most" flathead aren't cracked for the ones I've got (4) and they all checked out crack-free. True, there are some guys that have had a good deal of trouble tracking down a crack free block. Numerous flathead have cracks that go from a bolt hole to a water jacket. Original thought was this was no biggie. HAMBER Vergil found it that may not always be the case. Some joke there is a Ford part number for these cracks they are so common. Good luck and I agree take a stab at for $100.00 That is what unchecked, non-running motors go for. Sleaves aren't a big deal. If they are thin walled sleaves, they can be pulled and you can bore the block oversized. If they are the thick, cast iron sleaves you can machine the sleave if there is enough meat. Getting one re-sleeved is expensive and will add $800 to $1,000 to the rebuild. Good luck and take a chance. Becareful though, you may never go back to an OHV motor again once you get bitten by the flathead bug.
Don't just go by the heads. All 24 stud heads are interchangable and doesn't mean it is actually that motor.
Most normal sleaves arent that expencive, or atleast with the guys i've dealt with, now the thicker sleaves like they used in some flatties might be though
You're right & good point. That price of $800-1,000 was for the thicker, cast iron sleeves. At least that is what my flathead friendly machine shop in NJ gets. Tim
The thin sleeves used in production sleeved motors require no machine work and press in and out with a simple kit whose most important function is to keep them from collapsing under the force from the big screw pulling them in. Worth thinking about as a potential cheap rebuild if you can get all the parts. Sleeved and unsleeved production was mixed in both 221 and 239 motors. Don't identify either by what the owner is saying or the heads! Post details, we'll sor***out.
thin sleeves we used to pull the sleeves, hone the bores and put in ,.082 pistons that Jahns made special for them. Pistons ,pins, and rings cost us $12.50, Easier than resleeving them. that was when we charged $125 to pull engine, rebuild engine, and put it back in! LOL traderjack
good visual inspection is needed for cracks and the like.Know your topic,realise that flatheads are awesome,read,read,read everything about them and embrace the power of the flatty..one of us...one of us....hahah good luck!
Id pull the heads off and see what the cylinders bores look like. i just bought one that was locked up, but when I took the heads off it just had a thin coat of surface rust, with alittle WD 40 it was free and good to go with good compression.
Thanks again for all the great advice guys. The engine is three and half hours from me, so short of any major cracking that an inexperienced hack like myself can pick up on, I think I'll just bring it home. Worst case scenario, I sell what parts I can off of it and write the rest off as experience. At least I'll get to tear down a Flathead. I'll post some pics of the tear down if anyone is interested.
Hey, it's a flathead!!! and it' only a hunert bucks!!! If it's junk, display it on your coffee table, it's a flattie!!!!
I bought a $100 flathead also. An 8BA. Being in the Northern climates freezing and water will create cracks (rain, snow, and even condensation from humidity). I knocked the #4 piston out of mine today, and snapped this pic. (the #5 is cracked as well) If it's cracked, you'll likely see it. If you don't see anything, then magnaflux it. $100 is a good learning experience at the very least. But for $100, I suspect it's locked up and/or been sitting outside for quite awhile. Good luck!
Jump on it,here's a snap of my $100 flathead purring nicely!Cleaned it up, Paint and chrome,just like 1959 for me.It had anti-freeze in it and none in the pan when I bought it.I've never pulled the heads afraid to.A pre war 239" 24 stud. Enjoy"flathead fever"265glide
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