Brake/Wheel Issues - Need Advise

I decided to replace the front brake shoes on my '57 Ford Custom over the weekend. No biggie...I've done more brake jobs than I can remember. Everything went well and I went out on the test drive. I didn't note any issues at all...no noises, grinding, pulling, nothing.

When I got back, I jacked up the front end to spin the wheels (I like to do this after the test run to make sure the brakes are adjusted correctly). The right front drum was really hot. I pulled the drum and the shoes look like they are adjusted fine - they don't seem to be scrubbing on the drum. I spun both front wheels with the front end off the ground and they turn freely for almost exactly the same number of rotations.

So, I go back out for another test drive. This time, I get going a little faster and really stomp on the brakes. It pulls to the LEFT a little when I stomp the breaks. Now, it's the right side that is getting hot, so I would expect it to pull to the right. I replaced the rubber brake lines last year, so they are in perfect condition.

It's entirely possible that this heat issue was heppening before I replaced the shoes...I really don't know.

So, where do I start? I am thinking:
1. Bleed the brakes again...especially the right front since that's the drum that is getting hot. If there is an air pocket somewhere on that side, it could be causing issues.
2. Maybe the wheel cylinder is going bad?
3. Maybe a bad adjustor? (not likely. It spins freely when it's not under spring tension).
4. ?????

 

look at the wheel bearings

 

I second the bearings.

 

Yeah, I have had the same happen with dry/worn out bearings...

BTW, an air pocket on the right could cause the pull to the left, but not the heat. Probably goes without saying to replace both front bearing sets at the same time...

 

I went down to NAPA tonight and got new bearings and seals. Replaced everything and packed it up with grease. The cone bearings set up real nice and everything seemed ok. I also bled the brakes to make sure.

Went for the test run and it still pulls hard to the left when I slam on the brakes and the right front drum is getting hotter than hell. The brake adjusters are all the way in and it still almost rubs. I'm thinking the new brake shoes are either manufactured wrong or they are just the wrong ones...maybe mis-labeled on the box. I took a picture before I removed the old shoes and I noticed something. The horizontal spring that goes across (just under the wheel cylinder) was pretty much fully compressed on the old ones. On the new shoes, it's stretched out.

Gotta quit for the night, so I'll post an update tomorrow. I'm gonna grab another set of shoes and dig the old ones out of the trash to compare to the new ones.

Any more ideas?

 

Maybe The shoes are not in the slotted pins properly.. or the pins are not in the cylinders all the way.. is the metal edge of the shoe rubbing on the drum?( this would cause it to get hot ) the face of the shoe may not be grabbing .. you ll have some pressure..that could be why its pulling to the left..

 

Give it a little time for the shoes to 'break-in.'

Any chance you have the primary/secondary shoes reversed on one side?

You may have a shoe/shoes that's not making full contact therefore not as strong as the other side.

Drive normally as well, stomping on brand new brakes with few or no miles is something to be avoided in my opinion.

Along these same lines, if you bought the best, top grade - my parts house carries three levels of disc pads and two of drum shoes - they're usually harder than the lesser grades.
Any chance you or the parts house has done mix & match between soft linings and hard ones?

A soft shoe will break in quicker than a hard one.


Back in the good ol daze we use to run station wagon brakes on our Shoeboxes.
A bolt-on that replaced the coupe/sedan/four door/convert 10" drums with 11" wagon Shoebox drums.

In the process we used "Velvetouch" (brand name) sintered metallic linings.
Braking was much improved as far as fade went, but it took a while for the hard metallic linings to brake in.

They also had a bit of morning sickness, but that went away after a couple miles of driving.

It was common for circle burners in stock cars to run Velvetouch linings.

 

Update:
1. Replaced the bearings
2. Rebuilt the wheel cylinders
3. Removed and re-installed shoes
4. Bled brakes

The left pull is completely gone, but the right front drum is still getting hot. When I got back from the test run last night, I jacked the front end up and both sides spin freely. I really thought the right side would be noticably grabbing since it got so hot.

Should I just drive for a little bit and see if it settles in? It doesn't get glowing hot, but it's pretty friggin hot and the left side is fine. I'm stumped.

 

Do you have the shoes reversed on one side?

Short lining shoe goes to the front - it's the self-energizing one.

 

I did have them reversed on the left side (my boneheaded move of the week!). When I flipped them the right way the pull to the left went away, so that was clearly the cause of that part of it.

So with that mystery solved, by my own stupid mistake, I'm still stuck on the hot right drum issue.

 

Note: Friction = Heat. More hard stops = more friction between brake shoes and drums hence more heat. No problem unless you try to make several hard stops in rapid succession w/o letting them cool down at Little River. Scares the hell out of the ticket seller at the gate unless they have changed things around.

In the early 70's I worked at the Firestone store in Waco and at least once a month I had someone bring their car in with brake problems after they had changed their own brakes. Usually from putting something on backwards.

 

I've never seen it before but i wonder if the drum could be turned too far and with less material just seems hotter?

 

I'm actually considering swapping sides that the drums are on when I get home tonight to see if the heat follows the drum. If I swap them and the left side gets hot, it's probably a bad drum.

Unfortunately, the only place I can find replacement drums is Kanter at over $100 each.

 

Try your brake drum swap. If that doesn't change anything, try this: with the car suspended and a friend inside, spin the wheels one by one. Apply the brake then immediatly let off. Quickly spin the wheel again. Does the brake release "right now" or does there seem to be a delay? If there is a delay, pull that wheels brake hose off and see if you can blow through it. Often when a hose starts to plug up it will act as a valve. You have a lot of pressure pushing the fluid out but only light pressure (spring pressure) to return the fluid to the M/C.

 

It sounds like the right side brake hose...the rubber hose...is partly swelled closed.
The master cylinder puts out tremendous pressure to spread the shoes
but the puny (by comparison) return springs can not force the fluid back to the master cylinder
thus causing the shoes to drag all the time creating heat

It may be time to replace all 3 hoses

 

I vote too for the rubber hose being the source.

 

All three hoses are less than a year old, but that doesn't necessarily mean there isn't a problem with one or an obstruction. I'll definitely take a look at all of these things over the weekend and post an update.

 

11" 57 Ford drums, right?

I built a narrowed 9" rear axle out of a 62 or so pickup - 61 1/2" wide outer drum to outer drum.

Then I stuck a pair of alloy axles in the now 56" wide rear end.
Said axles set up with a 4 1/2" x 5 Ford pattern.

57 Ford drums would have worked great and they were available for mucho $$$.

I bought a pair of replacement drums for the pickup.
The drums were for 1 3/4" wide linings.
There are also 2 1/4" and 2 1/2" linings for these rear ends depending on what car or truck used them.

The pickup drums were 11" and took the 1 3/4" wide linings as noted.
Correct fit for my backing plates.

Drilling the 5 1/2" pattern drums to 4 1/2" is easily done.

Since the lug holes are 9/16" for the 1/2" lug studs you have a little room for error, but not much.

The wheel centers on the axle hub so that helps.

 

Did you replace the brake springs ?

 

X2 on a partially restricted hose on the RF. It may have bled off the pressure by the time you get it jacked up to free-spin it(rare but possible), as well as cause a pull to the left.

JM2C

 

Good info, but his problem was the fronts

 

Yes, but aren't front drums able to be separated from the hub?

Guessing here, but the drums I did had five additional holes - about 3/8" or so that made me think those drums could also be used on the front.

 

hi ihave done a lot of brakes in my day hahahah try cross hatching your drum with 40 grit body paper and your brake pull will go away try to get a x pattern on the drum surface yours truely inventor of flex hone for rotors randall c foreman owner of adapterking.com

 

oh for u guys that need more stopping power do your rotors with 40 grit
it will wear off in about 6 thousand miles and u will get great friction

 

The weirdness continues...

I went back in tonight, removed the brake hoses and blew them out. I re-bled the entire system and ****oned everything back up.

Based an an earlier recommendation. I spun the front wheels with the front end off the ground. The left side works perfectly. I had my son hit the brakes and release. Everything pulled back into position and there are no problems. On the "hot" right side, we did the same thing. It doesn't do it every time, but about half the time when we release the brake pedal, the shoes drag on the drum a little bit. Here's the weird part. If you pump the brake 3 times and release the pedal, it spins perfectly - no drag. If you step on the brake once (like in a normal stop) it intermittently drags when you release the pedal.

I am stumped. The brake hoses are less than a year old and I removed them and blew them out just to make sure there are no obstructions. I honed and rebuilt the wheel cylinders, turned the drums, bled the entire system multiple times and replaced the bearings.

Master cylinder, maybe? I'm running out of parts to replace!

 

Have you replaced the brake return spring on the right side?

 

A simple test---swap the front brake hoses,
see if the problem moves to the other wheel

 

Did you replace the springs ????

 

I can't find the spring kit anywhere locally (of course). I'm going to order all the brake springs from Macs today.

That brake hose swap suggestion is a good one, too.

Worst case is I'll buy a dual chamber master cylinder, which I would like to have anyway, and replace the whole system.

 

When rebuilding the wheel cyls. did you put one of the pistons or seals in backwards, also check for a bent backing plate, check by holding a straight edge against the backing plate, also check the wear pads on the backing plate, make sure they are not groved, if so grind the grove out by tapering them so the shoes do not stick.

And change the springs with a quality combi kit, it you cannot find one I have a local source, Good Luck