i got that 256 y and i am putting 3 deuces on it. i was told i need distributor, oil pump and shaft. Advance autoparts sells the a distributor for a 64 f100, the oil pump and the melling oil pump shaft. should all those parts work in order to make my intake work?
I put 3 two's on my 272 Y-Block and none of the above items related to changing the intake manifold, local Y-Block guru said to install newer distributor, but its not neccessary for the installation.
Wait! Count the teeth on the old dizzy, is it the same as the new dizzy? If so, all the parts will work. If not, very carefully press the dizzy gears off and put the 54 gear on the newer dizzy. Its very easy to break a tooth off, so the proper tools help.
That depends on how you define necessary. '54-'56 distributors, known as Load-o-Matics, have a vacuum-vacuum style advance that works directly in conjunction with the original carburetor, which has what Ford called a Spark Control Valve. If you replace the OE carburetor with something else...whether that's a 3x2 setup, a modern Edelbrock, a Holley 1850 VS, whatever...you now have no way to make the distributor advance work correctly. You will have ONLY whatever initial timing is set, plus, depending on what you hooked to where, and engine vacuum, you might have SOME advance (not enough) at certain times. There is absolutely no way to correctly "fix" the problem at this point.... If you do not replace the distributor, you are in effect leaving power, throttle response and gas mileage "on the table". The solution is to use a '57-'64 distributor with centrifugal/vacuum advance, or an aftermarket distributor. The '54 & early '55 engines have a different tang/slot drive system for the oil pump, so to use the newer distributor you have to replace the oil pump & shaft with the newer hex-type. (or screw around with replacing part of the original pump, which I would not recommend for 90%+ of the population as they won't understand the correct procedure.) The Dearborn-built 239s have a 13-tooth distributor gear instead of the 14-tooth gear found on Cleveland 239s and all other Y blocks, so you have to swap the original gear onto the new distributor. Some people have said that there were '54 Dearborn-built 256 engines as well but I have not confirmed this. At any rate a gear swap addresses the issue. Even if it is not necessary to change the original '54-'56 distributor, it is still a rather good idea.
I did not replace the carb, I used the original carb in the middle and two more just like it on either end, so the original advance is intact. The car runs and starts good. As I said in my first post the local Y-Block guy said to put a newer distributor in it, but I haven't and am not unhappy with how it runs. That said, have you put the newer distributor in a Y-Block? Does it help? Thanks
Under those cir***stances I would expect it to run relatively close to like it did before the swap, ***uming that the end carburetors are not open very far (if any) at idle, steady-state cruise, or other conditions of high vacuum. But if the cam was changed to something with more overlap and/or less LSA it might present a problem. This would be only the second time I have heard of someone using the original carburetor as the center unit. On some 3x2 manifolds they won't fit, depending on the manifold layout. And of course many people prefer to use something else for carbs (or started with a four barrel, for that matter). However, if it works, I don't see a particular reason NOT to use it. As far as using a '57-up distributor goes, yes, I've done this swap many times...actually just did it again this past weekend in my own truck...this one was a Mallory unit rather than FoMoCo, but the idea is still the same. ....(getting on top of large, rickety soapbox and clearing throat )....... One of the easiest and most overlooked aspects of tuning is the procedure of properly setting the advance curve....something that can be done with some experiment & a little thought, or taking it to a professional & having him/her do it with a distributor machine. Most factory distributors are set to have a very slow curve with limited amounts of timing, since they have no idea what a ham-fisted consumer may do to the engine, and a slow curve generally keeps said "mechanic" out of trouble. As a result, there are great gains to be found here with some work, but very little money. From this point of view, therefore, the Load-O-Matic has two basic problems. One, it is relatively difficult to adjust the amount & rate of advance, though not impossible. It is much more difficult to adjust than a conventional distributor, and it's not easily done during, say, an afternoon tuning session. It would have been somewhat simpler if they had put the distributor in the FRONT of the engine... There are also a lot of different pieces & design features that control the advance...any one goes wrong and the whole thing goes out of whack. A centrifugal distributor is straightforward and you can easily "quantify" the changes you are making; the Load-O is basically a guess, unless you have a machine. They are also very sensitive to point spring tension, so as the points slowly go away, you tend to lose timing, in addition to the effects of the dwell changes. Two, the whole process "lags behind" what the engine is actually doing at any given moment. They are not particularly responsive under acceleration and the whole effect is much like driving a car that's in the wrong gear. Look at the early Y blocks equipped with a Load-O-Matic, baseline (non-performance) calibration, and the Ford-o-Matic automatic with the Second gear start, and it's not too surprising that a lot of people thought the Y was a dog. The bottom line is that if you take a later distributor & even just stab it it, without doing anything except setting the initial timing, you nearly always see an improvement in throttle response & acceleration...also, generally a bit of improvement in mileage, even if the Load-o-Matic was working correctly. If you are willing to get the curve set optimally...you'll see more of an improvement yet. As a side note, if you deep-six the Load-o-Matic, you need to remove the spark control valve & plug it, which can be done with a std. Holley power valve blockoff plug & a couple of gaskets. ...(falling off soapbox directly into large puddle now.)....
When I bought the intake it came with 6 of the stock carbs, 3 on it and 3 in a box with the progressive linkage. I had rebuilt the stock 2 barrel once so I figured what better carb to start with then one I already knew ran good. I appreciate your information on the distributor and will probably look for one and try it. The original idea I was trying to get across was that you don't have to change any of the items mentioned in the first post, I got the impression that LV HotRodder was told that he had to replace those items or he couldn't install the intake and that's not true. Thanks again.
I read about a fellow who put a hot cam and later model four barrel on a 56. He would not believe that the stock dizzy was his problem, and he sold the car because it wouldn't run over 3500 RPMs. If you hop up a Y block, read what Homespun91 wrote above. Then read it again. Then do it. With the correct curve, the right cam, and good valve springs. when you try for a 6000 RPM shift it will go to 6200 every time, just like mine.
Yep, I wouldn't disagree with you, (***uming that we are speaking only of the OE two-barrel and 3x2 intakes that will accept it) though I believe in most cases it's unlikely to be a candidate for use, for various reasons. A lot of guys have difficulty in getting multiple carb setups to work correctly, & the Load-O-Matic system adds a bit of confusion to an already daunting process. Nevertheless, you are correct that it can be used under certain cir***stances, and I tip my hat to you for sorting it out in conjunction with the Load-o & the 3x2. The original poster actually has a "teapot" Holley 4bbl, if memory serves, and this is why he needs to go down this particular road. I probably need to add that I am an inveterate drag racer, and as such subscribe to the old racer's concept that anything from the factory needs to be modified or just thrown out & replaced with cubic dollars. I've worked on enough Load-O systems now that I view them with extreme disfavor, but within their parameters they can be made to work to an extent.
If you run a smaller/bigger more/less carb than orginal you always change the vacuum signal. The -57 up distributor is ~$50 , so i would run it and call it done. Michael
I am an inveterate lowbucker so I try to use what's there, but I am not cheap and I think you have convinced me to put in the 57 distributor. I truly appreciate all of your insight. Did we help the guy with the original post? Thanks again
Well, the funny thing is that I did some time in NHRA Stock eliminator with a Hemi...thereby getting the best of both worlds... spending ridiculous amounts of money and STILL getting to work with less-than-optimum factory parts. Actually, I don't think that a clear-cut answer exists in most cases. I'm a big fan of the Duraspark electronic distributor and use them quite a bit. The '57-'74 points units are good too (although I think that the GM design is a little simpler & to-the-point). As an acquaintance of mine once said, though, the Load-o-Matic needs to be "sleeping with the fishes". I do tend to get on the box about ignitions, if only because I find that most people completely ignore them. Whether that's because of lack of understanding them, or because they're not ***y like a shiny new Holley & aluminum intake, I dunno. In my experience, though, about 85-90% of the time, when something goes wrong, it's an ignition issue, not the carburetor. Even when someone has a good-running stock engine, as a general rule, I would recommend that they A) get the ignition set where it needs to be; B) make sure the carburetor is relatively close in terms of jetting/etc.; C) better exhaust; D) look at A & B again with the improved exhaust; E) look at driveline (axle ratio, trans type, etc.); F) only then look at possibly upgrading the carb/intake. Of course, a lot of times other factors may take precedence. Someone e-mailed me and asked for more information about the Load-O-Matic & how the advance curve can be adjusted. It's not really for the faint of heart, the poor of vision, or the uncoordinated of feet, and I'm not much at explaining it, but I'll give it a shot. Basically the Spark Control valve on the carb looks at both manifold vacuum, and the venturi vacuum signal, tries to get an idea of the rpm of the engine (well, the amount of air going into it, really) and the load upon the engine, and sends orders, i.e. a metered or "controlled" vacuum signal, to the vacuum advance canister. The canister starts cranking in advance to the distributor. However, the advance plate (where the points are mounted; the plate is actually moving the points so that they are opened earlier) is restrained by two springs. The vacuum canister and the springs counterbalance each other. It's pretty sensitive. The springs are each attached to the plate on one end, and a fixed post on the other end (separate post sets for each spring, & they are at right angles to each other). To adjust the curve speed/rpm where the advance comes in, you can turn the posts, which are eccentric, thereby changing the spring tension, which either makes it easier for the vacuum canister to add advance...or, makes it harder. You could also use different springs, heavier or lighter; or possibly stretch the spring...or a combination of methods. The upshot of all of this is that it can be VERY difficult to figure out what you are doing PRECISELY, unless you actually have the distributor on a distributor machine. It doesn't take much adjustment to make a difference, and because of the location of the distributor, you usually can't tell what you're doing anyway. With a conventional centrifugal/vacuum distributor, you can make simple adjustments (though it is harder on a FoMoCo than on a GM; go figure ). If the engine doesn't like it...too quick...too much...you put it back to the previous setting. No harm, no foul. With the Load-O-Matic...oh HEYYYYY-LLLL no. Can't figure out where exactly it was. I think I'm pretty close...oops...no...not quite...almost...yep...yep...hey, where'd the spring go? Did I put the rag over the carb? No...moved it under the knee because it got a bit painful leaning over the engine compartment...BECAUSE I'VE BEEN TRYING TO GET THE @#$% TIMING BACK FOR THREE FRIGGIN' HOURS...(which is right about the time that the wife comes wandering by with a malicious grin on her face and says, "You said this was fun, right? HAHAHAHA!!!!" thus mixing thoughts of homicide, divorce, and psychological torture in with the Load-O-Matic procedure and wondering just where in hell the spring did go, not that you're going to tell HER that it's lost now). I think that's an accurate view of the whole procedure, except for mentioning the odd grooved mark on your cheek from the heater box stud which you discovered the hard way. On a serious note, you can see where point tension plays a role on all this too...as it decreases, the advance comes in more quickly. Obviously the SCV plays a critical part in the system, and I am told that the currently available ones don't last long. And of course vacuum leaks play havoc. A very long post!
Yeah guys thanks alot. i went down to advance and ordered the 64 dizzy, cap, rotor, shaft and oil pump all for 144 bucks. I will check the gears when i pull my old one out. and that oil pump should go right up correct?
Ford kept that distributor in the '6's until 1966, my 300 pickup had it. I swapped in a dist. and carb from an '82 with electronic ignition, and you wouldn't believe the diff! Better throttle response, starts better, and 5 MPG better! Shoulda done it sooner!
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